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What oil ?

joinerman

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Mar 23, 2010
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Are you all using in our IHD-T's, changed mine today, used Comma 10w40 semi synth, it's like a load of p**s,
 
I used Toyota oil in my Colorado for a while, but then decided to try Castrol Magnatec. The engine is much quieter now and it doesn't use a drop between changes.
 
did quite a long post about this a while ago- will see if i can find it.

the best spec diesel fully synth oil i have come across is Titan SynDiesel which amongst other you can get from Opie (fortunately i have a mate with a Fuchs account so i get it cheap in 250l drums!)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-997-fuchs-t ... iesel.aspx

its CI-4 fully synth with a very high TBN (which means you can use really cvrappy high sulfur diesel), more importantly it meets ACEA E7 which is an extremely heavey duty oil spec- a heavy duty diesel oil is typically one used in large commercial machinery- think Cat dumper trucks and the like. Acea quote that E7 must be:
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/A ... 0Sep05.pdf
Stable, stay-in-grade oil providing effective control with respect to piston cleanliness and bore polishing. It further
provides excellent wear and turbocharger deposit control, soot handling and lubricant stability. It is recommended for
highly rated diesel engines meeting Euro 1, Euro 2, Euro 3 and Euro 4 emission requirements and running under severe
conditions, e.g. extended oil drain intervals according to the manufacturer’s recommendations. It is suitable for engines
without particulate filters, and for most EGR engines and most engines fitted with SCR NOx reduction systems.
However, recommendations may differ between engine manufacturers so Driver Manuals and/or Dealers shall be
consulted if in doubt.

you will note it is for use under severe conditions (ie high load etc), reduces bore polishing and key has excellent soot handling and lubrican stability- one of the possible BEBs failure points according to Ozzie reports (i don't pretend to understand the BEBs issue well enough to make a judgement, but it sounds more plausible than anything else to me!)
 
Thanks pugwash, i'm probably worrying over nothing but i'm old school & am used to seeing a build up of oil in the funnel on refilling the engine & waiting for it to empty out the funnel, the stuff i put in yesterday when through the funnel like water, it states on the container that it meets all the requirements you mention, my oil pressure is definatly down at normal engine temp, going to junk this lot & get something else at the weekend.
 
ahh old school doesn't work with modern oils :D

10w40 donates the "weight" of the oil at hot and cold. What it doesn't actually dictate is viscosity.

Old oils were ridiculously viscous when cold- the weight was the same but they flowed really badly. This meant you had trouble starting, stupid high oil pressure when cold, and actually very low flow- the pressure was high because the pump was struggling to push the oil round- at hot temps, old oils did exactly the opposite, got TOO viscous (or at least unstably so), and then it was very easy to cause starvation.

Modern oils in comparison are amazing. At cold fully synth should drop your oil pressure a huge amount. this is a VERY good thing. What you want when you first start your engine is to oil to get round the engine as fast as damn possible- with synth oil it flows so ridiculously well that you need barely an engine revolution to cover the whole engine in lovely protective oil.

When the engine is hot, the oils are also FAR more stable, yes they will go runny as designed, but they won't break down, and in "hot" parts of the engine- bottom of the piston skirt for example, they won't degrade, carbonise or give up.

On top of all this the soot dispersal properties of modern oils means they can have a hug amount more ash dissolved in them before they reduce effectiveness- their were some figures around a while ago, and the increase in ash and sulphur handling was more like 300% then 3%- i can't remember the figures but i remember thinking how impressive they were!

Of course what we buy as fully synth isn't really fully synth at all- what it is a fully engineered mineral oil- ie it starts as light crude and is cracked and refined to exactly the properties you want. You can get properly synthesised oil- used in race engines i believe- it is astronomically expensive- into £20 per litre for the proper fully ester stuff (like this http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68900-fuchs ... ester.aspx ) which when you consider you might only use oil for one event and you might have 8litres with a dry sump system- you can see how it would add up!
 
10w40 donates the "weight" of the oil at hot and cold. What it doesn't actually dictate is viscosity.
Can you please explain the quality "weight of the oil" in terms of physics?

... at hot temps, old oils did exactly the opposite, got TOO viscous.
Interesting, I always thought that raising the temperature of the oil reduces its viscosity (oil flows better). Please explain your understanding further.

It would be also nice to define the term "old oils" more rigorously so that we all understand the central subject of the debate. Talking of exact terms relying on the exact science needs clear definitions first.
 
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vrecha said:
10w40 donates the "weight" of the oil at hot and cold. What it doesn't actually dictate is viscosity.
Can you please explain the quality "weight of the oil" in terms of physics?

[quote:kxvssfz3]... at hot temps, old oils did exactly the opposite, got TOO viscous.
Interesting, I always thought that raising the temperature of the oil reduces its viscosity (oil flows better). Please explain your understanding further.

It would be also nice to define the term "old oils" more rigorously so that we all understand the central subject of the debate. Talking of exact terms relying on the exact science needs clear definitions first.[/quote:kxvssfz3]

Second point- didn't mean viscous- meant complete opposite ie runny, my original sentence makes no sense with original wording!

a weight of oil is given as the time it take for a quantity of oil to flow through a givn opening- or the amount of time it takes for a ball bearing to drop through a medium. However that isn't the whole story- the weight only gives an idea of how the oil works in a free atmosphere, it doesn't dictate how the oil works under pressure, nor does it describe the friction properties of the oil (which no matter what some people try and beleive is different to the viscosity).

The "old oils" was a response to a previous poster. "old" oils for me would be entirely mineral based rather than petroleum:
The basic difference between a mineral and petroleum based oil and a full synthetic oil is one is dragged out of the ground while the other is man made. Mineral oils are subject to the impurities associated with petroleum based products, plus they don't have the additives inherent in synthetics. Synthetics on the other hand, by virtue of the fact they're man made, can be equipped from the outset with any number of additives to aid lubrication, reducing potential contamination, slow viscosity losses and as such are generally seen to be a vast improvement over mineral oil.

for me a new oil would be petroleum based mainly composed of Esters, POAs/Polyglycols, and synthetic Benzenese
 
pugwash said:
10w40 donates the "weight" of the oil at hot and cold. What it doesn't actually dictate is viscosity.
Sorry, Jim, this is not correct - the SAE grading system (e.g. 10W-40) is defined on viscosity. That is exactly what it dictates. In fact the reference you make to "weight" of oil is old school :) I agree that the grading doesn't denote everything about the viscosity over the full temp range but it does define the specific viscosity at certain temperatures.

a weight of oil is given as the time it take for a quantity of oil to flow through a givn opening
This is the standard measure of viscosity ;) Weight is given as the product of a force acting upon a mass.
 
Andrew Prince said:
pugwash said:
10w40 donates the "weight" of the oil at hot and cold. What it doesn't actually dictate is viscosity.
Sorry, Jim, this is not correct - the SAE grading system (e.g. 10W-40) is defined on viscosity. That is exactly what it dictates. In fact the reference you make to "weight" of oil is old school :) I agree that the grading doesn't denote everything about the viscosity over the full temp range but it does define the specific viscosity at certain temperatures.
How many engine oils actually work at STP?

none.

they are all under pressure. the weight of an oil is such a bad indicator of the viscosity of the oil whilst in the engine under load conditions. I'll accept that the viscosity is correct just sitting in the sump with the engine off, but we don't care about oil then.

Going to stand by the intent of my comment, that weights of oils no longer give a good idea of how they perform whilst in a running engine- ie they DON'T define the viscosity.

This is proven by dropping an old 10w40 mineral oil out of the engine, replacing with a fully synth 10w40. You will notice engine oil pressure drop at startup by some margin- depsite techincally the oils being exactly the same weight.
 
[apologies for the stroppy tone- got out of bed on the wrong side this morning- feeling very angry grrrr]
 
Back to basics, can I put 15w40 semi-synth oil in Muxley without causing problems?? Its just I have some kicking about & he's getting a little low...

Ta
 
@ Jim - no offence taken :mrgreen: I am with you on the fully-syn circulating better etc. I was being a bit pedantic on the terminology you were referring to, in that "weight" of oil is not a scientific term used with (engine) oil grades. I think you may find that the SAE oil testing procedure is a little more substantial than pouring some oil through an orifice plate at STP. But that doesn't really matter - we're talking about LC engines with for the most part are low tech and given regular oil changes with roughly the right grade of oil will be fine for 99% of applications ;)

@ Gav - Yes, I'm sure that oil will be fine. Tell us how differently it goes after you've changed the oil :mrgreen:
 
Andrew Prince said:
@ Gav - Yes, I'm sure that oil will be fine. Tell us how differently it goes after you've changed the oil :mrgreen:
:? Change the oil???

Just topped up for now - oil change after hols :mrgreen:
 
Well changed the oil again today, used castrol this time, oil pressure much better & it runs quieter.
 
I always prefer Bosch Engine oil for my car because it give best performance.
 
I always use Morris's Multivis. It exceeds the spec of Mobil 1. Superb stuff.
 
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