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Engine de-Carbonisation... home brew chemicals

Olazz

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RESULTS !Engine de-Carbonisation... home brew chemicals

I was watching Wheeler dealers last night and saw Ed, use a "new cleaning" system to decarbonise and clean the Jags motor. All very new stuff he said. Well this got me thinking what made it work.

Having qualified as a Chemist, (analytical thermodynamics major) I thought this can't be too difficult to replicate at home.
if you look up what's in most engine additive cleaners, its not too difficult to make up a home brew. I just hope my dull brain remembers a little of what I learnt so long ago:

A mixture of :

65% Naphtha - cleaning agent
25% Kerosene - stabiliser - or normal ATF as a mega stabiliser
15% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) - oxygenate, or could use Acetone which may be less corrosive.

Could use Toluene in the mix too.

Andrew your a Chemical engineer.... any thoughts on this?
 
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Phew not really my area of expertise but that sure looks like an explosive mix!

Taking a step back, how does an engine cleaner actually work? Is it by dissolving stubborn deposits and drawing these into the cylinder to be combusted? Is it by combusting in situ? I'm not really sure where the "dirt" that needs to be cleaned sits.

Looking at those ingredients, it's seems the concern would be to avoid cylinder/bore washing and the resultant loss of lubrication. Naphtha is not dramatically different to diesel but is a reasonable solvent to tars, so maybe is dissolves tar deposits and burns them when it combusts in the cylinder? The oxygenates promote a hotter, cleaner burn, so I'm assuming that they help burn up the "dirt", which is carbon? Wax?
 
Andrew Prince said:
that sure looks like an explosive mix!
Indeed so!
Taking a step back, how does an engine cleaner actually work? Is it by dissolving stubborn deposits and drawing these into the cylinder to be combusted? Is it by combusting in situ?
Yes that's the general principle.
Looking at those ingredients, it's seems the concern would be to avoid cylinder/bore washing and the resultant loss of lubrication.
Hence the use of Kerosene or ATF. If Toluene is added then that would have to be through the main fuel tank, because as Toluene is an much more aggressive solvent as you know.
Naphtha is not dramatically different to diesel but is a reasonable solvent to tars, so maybe is dissolves tar deposits and burns them when it combusts in the cylinder? The oxygenates promote a hotter, cleaner burn, so I'm assuming that they help burn up the "dirt", which is carbon?
Yes, aided by Thermodynamic principle of explosive nucleation and burns in situ, hence the need for an oxygenate, and is expelled through exhaust.... or at least thats my belief.

I will try my home brew using a gas analyser both before and after the process and will measure HCO and CO2 and post results here.
 
Way, way above me, probably about 38,000 feet above me.

Gra.
 
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I watched that video clip and the various videos on the link, but not one of them explained how to actually use the product they were advertising. The main video looked like some sort of apparatus that would be used to inject? something into the engine and in the other videos it looked like an additive that would go in the fuel tank but with no explanation of how much to use per tankful or how much this treatment would cost. am I missing something obvious here :confusion-confused:
 
i'll be watching this thread: when i've looked at redex, forte injector cleaner etc i've often thought that when you look at the ingredients they always seem to contain lighter fractions from fuel distellation. i'm no chemist at all, but have often wondered what else you could use to clean the fuelling system.
 
how about some brake cleaner, awesome stuff for cleaning things :) :lol:
 
Jon Wildsmith said:
adrianr said:
Steam injection should do the trick.
Have you tried it yet? ;)


I've been running my portable steam cleaner into the air intake for about 15 minutes post filter every 6 months or so.

engine runs quiet when i do that.
 
I'm trialing the Econokit that is water vapour injection.
 
Dumb question but why does the carbon not get burnt away anyway?
 
Residues that gradually get "baked" (incomplete combustion) leaving something close to pure carbon. And the places I imagine it builds up are not the actual combustion chamber where there is flame etc but on the intake, top of the valves etc.
 
At elevated temperatures (>350°C), carbon deposits are formed by the decomposition of hydrocarbons to carbon and hydrogen; or more technically polymerization/condensation of hydrocarbon to larger aromatic hydrocarbons which then "nucleate" and grow to become carbon deposits.

Phew, that was a trawl of knowledge from my days at Schlumberger. Better stop before I run out of steam!

Gonna crack on with my home brew this week end and see.
 
Not a clue on chemistry but I'm using Millers Diesel Sport additive on every fill for all my vans and cars. Bought by the gallon for about £70. 1 ml treats 1 litre so works out pence per dose. Increases the cetane of the fuel giving more power and economy that way more than pays for the gallon but it advertises that it cleans too.
I bought a vw caddy with weeping injectors, one dose seems to have fixed it.
 
What about Two Stroke Oil (2SO) works well and not expensive ?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4
 
Results of my experiment

Ok so resurrecting this old thread.

I thought I'd try this on the petrol 80 and see what happened.

I made up 10L of Naphtha/IPA/Kero/ATF/Toluene mix. I drained the main tank completely and filled with the mixture. As I don't have any fancy high pressure injection kit I took the chance of running through the whole system and injection pump.
I added Toluene as a more aggressive solvent but some ATF for more lubricant.

I didn't block off the return to the tank. I ran the motor for about 45 mins until the tank ran dry.

Gas analyser readings before:-

% vol CO 1.78
HCO ppm 480

After

% CO 0.87
HCO ppm 113

I'd call that a success!!

I filled tank with fresh fuel and have now driven 500 miles with no ill effects or problems. I must have got the Mixture % pretty close or the Toluene was more aggressive than I thought !

Fuel consumption seems to be better by 2pmg overall.

Remains to be seen if the fuel system will stand up to the mixture that was used!

DISCLAIMER: My experiments and observations are just that. Please don't try this unless you are willing to risk damage to yourself or your engine!



 
I'm shocked that 10l lasted 45 mins :lol:

Good result I'd say with the clean.

As a side note Are the cat convertors etc ok? Co seems a bit high still. Mine runs at 0.12 %co at fast idle and hc is 10 ppm.
when only had 1 cat fitted I couldn't get it in spec for the emissions (limit of 0.2%co and hc 200 ppm )

I've often thought about taking the inlet off and dropping it in the parts cleaner and cleaning the inlet ports in the head with our walnut blaster, feels too much effort tho! Have chucked a couple of bottles of our fuel treatment in before.
 
The obvious decrease in emissions after using these cleaners is more likely to be due to cleaning of the fuel side of the injectors for a better burn and purging of the cats if they're fitted. The baked on carbon deposits are going to contribute very little to the emissions IMO. Anyone who's done a proper strip down decoke will know how stubborn those deposits are and they're not going to be shifted by some magic potion no matter how exotic. If they clean up the emissions enough to get a vehicle through a test which would otherwise fail then great, why not, but they're not going to properly decoke the engine. JMO
 
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