Re-filling disposable Propane cylinders

Following my recent Wales trip I decided to look into upgrading my Bistro Butane powered stoves to something that will give better performance in cooler conditions. Don't get me wrong my two Bistro stoves have given me excellent service and so long as you always have a spare cylinder either in your pocket or laid next to a lit stove keeping it warm you could keep swapping them out when the one in use gets to cold to work efficiently. For the first time ever though on this trip I had only two cylinders and one of these was pretty much empty and of no use in the swapping process! After getting home I decided to have a look at my options for improving my cooking efficiency in colder conditions and have bought a Coleman Perfectflow 2 burner propane stove to have a play with. Now the little propane cylinders that this stove uses are not the cheapest at about £9 each and are only twice the size of the butane cylinders that I currently use that cost about £2.50 each. I hope that the Propane cylinders will be slightly more efficient at cooking than the Butane ones and hence will give slightly better endurance than twice that of the Butane ones. I have looked into running it from off of a 3.9Kg CalorGas Propane cylinder as I already have one and they are less than £15 for a re-fill. A bit cumbersome to carry though just for a weekend away and so I shall probably stick with using the smaller Coleman ones. I then stumble over the fact that in America it seems to be very common practice to re-fill the disposable Propane cylinders from a larger Propane cylinder with a whole array of advice and adapters available to this end.

This is a link to an adaptor for sale with a video of how to use it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261057532314?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

And here is a place selling an whole array of adapters and gas fittings that are of great interest.

http://www.propaneproducts.com/catalog/all-mr.-heater-parts-fittings-hoses-37-1.html

But this has to be my favourite link with a lot of discussion both positive and negative at the bottom.

http://www.navagear.com/2009/08/27/how-to-refill-disposable-propane-cylinders/

im very tempted to set myself up to do this and wondered what you lot think about doing this and if infact any of you already do?

"Under no circumstances should anyone ever refill disposable propane cylinders using the following method."

I'm not surprised he covers himself by saying this. An explosion waiting to happen IMO, just to save a few £. Not for me I'm afraid.

Steven I know exactly what you mean about those canisters in cold conditions. It is frustrating. I have, let's say, a few stoves and the only troublesome ones are those fuelled by those aerosol shaped cans. All the other Camping Gaz type screw in ones work perfectly. But best of all is the Coleman dual fuel running on petrol. It can be as cold as you like and it works a dream. It's the only one I use now (errm, I have two) other than the gas conversion on the Trangia stove. That is nuclear.

I know they are very convenient cookers, but I have all but given up on them. I found genuine Camping Gaz bottles were better than all the rest ns Sun Gas was appalling. But always look for the butane / propane mix ones.

Would I refill? Nope. Don't think so. I am not saying it can't be done safely, but I'd be concerned about the life of the canister that was designed to be used once. That having been said, I have not read the article yet.

What you need is some braided hose and a converter to use good gas canisters on the portable stoves. I know you can get adaptors to go the other way ie aerosol to screw in, but not see one to go the other way.

We've been using a Coleman Fold n Go that uses the same gas canisters for a few years and the gas seems to last pretty well. I'd wait and see how quickly you empty a canister before you worry too much about the cost of new canisters you might be pleasantly surprised

What I did find is the way the bottle connects to the cooker with a rigid pipe can be a pain so I cut the rigid pipe and added a section of flexible hose so I can put the bottle somewhere more convenient.

I always used the Halfords aerosol style gas canisters as they have a good weight of gas in them and are a Butane/Propane mix, but even so they still suffer badly from the cold. I had always intended sticking one of those re-usable chemical hand warmers under each canister while in use, but always forgot. I'd love to own one of the Coleman dual fuel twin burner stoves, but discounted them as when I'm away with the two boys I need something that I can just pull out and fire up without any fad. Something that the Coleman dual fuels sadly are just not capable of. Maybe I'll treat myself to one in the future. I'm not completely against the idea of re-filling the disposable cylinders, so long as one exercises some common sense and does it in well ventilated space such as the middle of the garden away from any ignition sources. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it and using it in anger to find out how well it performs in the cold and how long the gas lasts. I bought it second hand from off the bay for just £18 with two gas cylinders from a chap in Exeter. Just need to get it from there to me know. I had read in my research about you altering the pipe work Jon and have to say that I may almost certainly be doing the same thing. Coleman USA also sell a holder that connects two cylinders together as one that looks very interesting.

Given the rigmarole that you go through with your current set up, I'd hardly see the petrol stove as being 'fadd' One tank usually does me a whole weekend so you don't refill that often. All you do is pump the primer a couple of times, open the tap and light it. Other than opening the lid there isn't much more to it. IN a race against the clock, you'd be quicker for sure but if 30 seconds extra is that critical, I'd be surprised. They run very hot too, no problems there. There's no smell and of course two burners. I'm not trying to sell one to you Steven, but just pointing out that they are not like setting up some army camp kitchen. I also have a cast iron griddle tray which goes on top across both burners so that you can cook on one big hot plate. Oh and of course, I can cook for as long as there is fuel in the tank without it stopping because it's cold.

I've seen Jon's fold and go thing in action many times and it a great piece of kit. Now if I feel I need another stove at any point, I might just .........

I'm no safety nazi, I've done things that make even my toes curl.
Im also no stranger to pressure (20 years of 3000psi hydraulics) or gasses (pumped my own nitrous for 5 and i refill my portable argon bottle from a storage tank) but I wouldn't refill disposables beyond simple half fill refilling which is usually just a waste of time. Full filling requires and / or causes some pretty major pressure changes unless you're physically pumping it and then it needs some very, very careful monitoring.
Pressurised containers really do go off like grenades, complete with shrapnel.

One trick that I know some of the winter walkers do with Trangias that are on gas is to do a flask of hot water the night before to then sit the canister in it so that the butane is warmed up again!

Personally I'd go Kelly Kettle (boils water faster than a meths trangia) for hot water purposes (using the lint from the tumble drier as a fire lighter) or a Primus Omni Fuel stove with the option of gas or liquid fuel (ideally panel wipe as it's cheaper than Coleman white gas)

Alternatively, as the others have said the big Coleman double burner set up is awesome...

I'm not a fan of the Coleman petrol stove.

My house mate has one which he uses on all the trips we go away on. He has to pump his about 10 times before he can start cooking and its proven to be a bit temperamental lately.

We got a packet of biscuits out of the space case in the back of his 80 on a night drive a few months ago. He keeps his stove in the space case and all I could taste when I started eating the biscuits was fuel from the fuel stove!

It had some how got through the cardboard box and then through the supposedly air tight plastic bag and into the biscuits. So I went hungry, something that wouldn't have happened with a gas stove!

Not good!

Every time I burped for about the next 10 hours all I could taste was petrol.

I know some of you use them and love them, but from my personal experience I'm not a fan. The one thing I do like about them is the fact that you don't need to lug a big gas bottle around with you like I do with my gas stove, and its easy to see how much fuel is left in them.

Ben's story reminds me of the time that I was on a backpacking expedition where one of the lads decided to remove the o-ring from a sig bottle as the meths was too slow when he poured it... downside was that the meths leaked all over his brand new rucksack... and all you could smell was meths for the next 4 days!

I do agree that once going the Coleman dual fuel stoves burn like a small volcano in all conditions, but and in common with Bens experience my own experience of them has also been smelly and temperamental. When my Bistro stove finally gave up on the last trip Giles lent me one of his little single burner Coleman dual fuel stoves to finish off me bacon. After 5min of faffing we decided that it was a lost cause and deployed his second one that also required the obligatory pumping and twisting of the handle. There was now the smell of unleaded everywhere and as it turned out the first one had some kind of a leak that required attention. So to sum up for me love the idea of owning one when working, but just don't have the time for all of the faffing when they don't or the time for all of the cleaning and servicing that is clearly required to keep them in good working order Still hope to own one in the future though as a man can not have to many stoves Unless your names Chris

Funny how a thread about re-filling gas bottles has turned into another 'whats the best camping stove to own' thread

Back to the gas bottle re-filling It is an interesting topic and I guess depends upon ones own risk aversion to this kind of thing. I to am very experienced at filling and topping up high pressure cylinders coming from a diving background. I've filled cylinders from 0.5l to 18l up to 300bar with anything from compressed air to 100% O2. I've also spent time visually inspecting and Hydro testing all different sizes of cylinder and feel that one could transfer some of this knowledge across to the disposable gas cylinders. The nice thing about the disposable gas cylinders in my mind is that they have a pressure relief valve that is set well below the design pressure of the cylinder. I'm sure that I read somewhere that the design pressure of the disposable gas cylinders is 800psi and the relief valve is a little over half of this, don't quote me though There has been a chap killed in America filling one of these cylinders whilst inside his Fifth wheel trailer, INSIDE!!! Probably with plenty of ignition sources is the key wording here in my mind. You can also have a take off fitted to one of those huge 500 gallon sited LPG tanks in America for filling portable BBQ gas cylinders One death does not make this dangerous though, do you think? I can think of at least four deaths of people off-roading since I started and many serious injuries directly as a result of off-roading, so does this make off-roading more dangerous than re-filling disposable gas cylinders I'm certainly not going to stop off-roading any time soon

Another vote here for the Coleman dual fuel double burner stove. Had one for a few years now and never let me down. Don't bother with fancy fuels, just straight unleaded. Used it in sub zero temps with no lighting or burning issues whatsoever where a butane stove suffers a big pressure drop after a few minutes of burn. Never, ever had problems with food tasting or smelling of petrol but I store and refill the stove well away from any foodstuffs.

One more vote for the Coleman , it takes no time at all to fire up and I've never noticed smell of petrol apart from when refilling and as Towpack, stored well away from foodstuff. I haven't had to use it in very cold conditions yet so I can't comment on that.

Funny how a thread about re-filling gas bottles has turned into another 'what's the best camping stove to own' thread

I think that is because we all love you so much mate and we're trying to find alternatives that don't involve you being killed.

After Charlie and Nina went round the World in their 95, they came to see me. I asked them what was the best thing (apart from each other and the Colorado obviously) they they took on the trip. Without a seconds hesitation, in unison, they both said Coleman dual fuel stove. I bought one that weekend. It's been everywhere including being in the fire that wrote the white 80 off. I have cooked for hours on it. Servicing that you have to do? What servicing? Leak? Never. Smelled of fuel? Not once.

As I said Steven, not trying to make you have one, but I do have to defend them against any myths to their detriment. Not everything in life is perfect and I completely accepts Ben's experience, but how many people does it take to say how good they are to counter a couple of bad experiences, especially when you are using canisters that we all know are a pain in the ass when it's cold.

You have to pump it. Well of course you have to pump it. What an effort that is. Not. They are so good, now I have two and the lantern as well.

Down side? Unless you drop onto one, they are expensive. I think that you can get a good double gas burner for less. I have been is very cold temperatures with my gas stoves and never had an issue. It is ONLY these aerosol type ones that I have ever had to swap and shake. Which is more effort that pumping the Coleman I can assure you.

Top Tip.

If you are concerned about the smell or tainting using Unleaded in your Coleman,(or any other fuel burning stove/lamp) you have three other choices too burn with:

Coleman Fuel.... comically priced at over £5 per litre.
Aspen 4T .... More reasonably priced at about £2 per litre.
Panel wipe.. about the same as A4T per litre.

All of the above are Napthalene, i.e. the top fraction of distillation, but Apsen 4T is the purist fraction and contains no aromatic solvents, sulphur or benzene.

It burns cleaner, lights easier and causes very little sooting.

Panel wipe works just as well BTW albeit a little less pleasant than A4T.

I never use Unleaded even though its the cheapest as I don't like the effect of, nor do I want burnt aromatic solvents on/around what I eat. You all already know the harmful effects of Benzenes!

Nice I didn't know that.

To be fair, a litre is quite a lot of fuel. I wouldn't use that much on a long weekend camping. So for £2, I'd be like a pig in nuts.

Oh, one thing I don't do is use that f***ing stupid funne that come with the stove. That just guarantees pissing petrol all over the place. I have a Trangia fuel bottle with a spout.

I may change the title of this thread to 'What do you think of your Coleman Dual Fuel Stove Then.....'

Do you want me to do that for you Steven? Or I could change it to 'Lah lah lah, I am not listening ......'



C

FYI Coleman fold and go currently £20 (plus £5pa for discount card) at go outdoors. fuel cans are £8 for 1.17l (465g)