Spanish road travel update.

JE SUIS CHARLIE!!


Hi all, just a few lines about recent changes to road travel in Spain. I know these are not common knowledge because even the Spanish people themselves are up in arms because the changes were brought in on the QT. Note the fines are variable but, these are the ones I know about as opposed to rumours.

1, Up until a few weeks ago the over the speed limit 'allowance' was 15 kph, it is has been reduced to 8kmh.

2, Fines for non-residents (Residents 30 days) are almost always enforced 'on the spot', if you did not have cash you were escorted to an ATM. Now most traffic cars have a card reader in the boot and can take money from your card real time but, if your card does not work (for whatever reason) then the police may confiscate your vehicle THERE AND THEN, it remains confiscated until the fines and so forth have been paid.

3, If your speed exceeds 50% of the speed limit the fine has been reputed to be very high, the only one I have personally witnessed was 600 euros in December last year, note as per the UK small towns/villages may have very low speed limits and Spain is no different but, with limits as low as 20 kph, that is a tad over 12 MPH it is very easy to go over it.

4, Police now are inclined to keep your licence and send it to DVLA in the UK to have points added to it, if the offence is considered serious enough.

5, To add credence to No 4, it is illegal in Spain to drive a vehicle without all the relevant papers but, it was acceptable to have copies certified by a Notary (legal representative), this is no longer the case for the driving licence, I have a friend who was issued with a 150 euro fine as he drove out of Murcia airport. He had the official copy but was fined because he did not have his original. Whether this applies to other vehicle papers is unclear at the moment, you should have them anyway.

6, If caught driving a car or on a scooter/motor bike in flip flops or any backless sandals then this could result in a 150 euro fine.

7, If caught with a dog untethered ....150 euros fine.

8, Children not restrained correctly (child seats/boosters and so forth) 300 euros per child.

9, Shopping in the 'passenger area' 100 euro fine.

10, A STOP sign in Spain means exactly that STOP, even if you think you are the only vehicle for 100 km's and there is no other vehicle in sight, fine was 115 euros, a recent conversation revealed a fine of 150 euros has just been issued.

Hidden camera's are also more prevalent, you could arrive home after a visit here and not been stopped and find you have multiple fines, the Spanish authorities are more 'tied in' with DVLA and they are inclined to pursue fines these days. More and more Spanish police speak very good English so no more excuses about not understanding, and your sorry and giving them the sob story is unlikely to work.

As always showing a little restraint and some manners (in any country) with officials may see you let off with a warning but alas, the Spanish authorities are following the UK and see motorists as easy targets and fines seem to be more freely issued.

Be careful out there!

regards

Dave

ooeer
pretty much similar in Froggy land, but not sure about #7 though - how the heck do you tether 3 great big labs in the back of a collie? (car, not dog) I have no chance! However they are behind a dog guard, would that be OK ? I better check the Laws for France re pooches!

Edit: just googled ........In France it is illegal for a dog travelling in a car to be able to touch the driver so it must be restricted in its movements either by a tether, dog guard or cage. This is basic common sense as no responsible dog owner would want to allow their dog to become a flying missile in the event of an accident nor should they want to be distracted by their pooch whilst driving.

I better stop one of them coming for a ride on the central seat in the van then!

And there was me thinking some of the road laws down here were a bit over the top and ridiculous!

Sorry I should have made No 7 clearer, yes tether/dog guard and so forth. It is common sense but I would love a euro for every kid I see standing on the centre console with his/her head out the sun roof, dogs sitting on drivers laps, and many other 'accidents waiting to happen'.

FWIW anyone resident in Spain and under pensionable age caught working must produce their social security card, this is to show they are registered with the authorities and/or is 'autonomo' (self -employed). I got 'rinsed' last week hence the thought of this thread, they wanted to know the ins and outs of a cats arse, fortunately I am 'above board' but many are not so watch you yourself!

Regards

Dave

No point in having laws unless they are upheld. I, stupidly, 30 years ago got stopped for doing 155kph in the rain on the Peage. I was fined the maximum possible which was nearly £200. This money was held until the matter had been determined by the court over there. (Learned this later) . About 3 weeks later I received a letter from the French court and they had determined the amount was not enough and asked for another £25 so I sent it off.

sounds like the same as the draconian rules the french bought in a couple of years ago

Update.

Last night had some friends over for meal/drink/cards chin wag and so on, I had already collected them in the LC and was dropping them off at their various abodes when I was stopped by the local traffic police, I was breathalysed (never D & D so no issue). My documents were also checked, in particular my driving licence, a rule recently brought in is that 'residents' MUST have their driving licence provided by Spanish authorities, the fine now is circa 300.00 euros if you have not made the switch.

This is catching out many here who LIVE here more that than six months and believe their British 'European' driving licence is legal....it no longer is.

Of note, in the UK I was breathalysed twice in around 30 years of driving? In this small coastal resort where I live I reckon 12 - 15 times in the last 9 years plus another perhaps 5 when out and about travelling?

Regards

Dave

if your home address is Spain/France or wherever, your driving license should have your 'home' address on it. If its like France, its easy to change. The number of Brits trundling around with Brit licenses who live here full time is unreal....as are the the Brit Reg cars with no MOT or Tax, but thats another can of worms!

That's not correct. All EU licenses are valid in all EU countries, until they expire and need renewing. It should then be renewed in the country in which you are resident.

Just looked at my recently updated French License...no address on it, but the old one had it on? (updated for the HGV) I think the rule is that you have a permit for your country of residence after 6m.
You are forced to change if you have a speeding ticket that incurs points (or loss of point in France).

They can't force you to change your licence, offence or not. What they can do is create a ghost licence for you on the french system, upon which they add or deduct points. Not sure what happens though when you reach the limit on that though.

Move countries Dave.

The problem is, as the UK doesnt as yet have the ability to talk to France with regards to penalty points for its old residents, so therefore they 'can' force you to change and the 'can' take it from you if the offence is serious. They can also confiscate your car if you cant pay/wont pay an on the spot fine.
remember, the Gendarmes have guns, so they are not ones to argue with!

I copied this from UK gov website.
If you’re moving abroad, you can’t register your new address on your British driving licence. Contact the driving licence authority in your new country of residence.

and this robbed from somewhere else:

Q. Is my UK licence legal to drive on?
A. Yes, citizens of EU countries are permitted to drive within France on the driving licence issued by their country of origin. UK driving licence holders moving to live in France should be aware that the DVLA in the UK do not allow foreign addresses on UK licences. If you inform them that you have a foreign address they will send you a form which you can use to obtain a French licence. You should also note that if you commit a driving offence in France which involves the addition of penalty points to your licence you will be obliged to change from a foreign to a French licence.

As I understand it, other countries are now talking to DVLA, lots of UK motorists have been caught by the speed cameras on the way to the channel tunnel in france, there was a lot of hooha about it a while ago.

here's a pretty scarry article on the french police and their powers


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/3190922/Dont-mess-with-the-French-police.html

From the horses mouth, europa.eu, not a scare story from a newspaper or urban myth http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving/validity/index_en.htm

[h=3]EU driving licences[/h]Before you move to a new country, make sure your driving licence has not expired.
Provisional licences or certificates issued in your home country will not be recognisedin other EU countries.
If you move to another country, you can drive there with your current
licence as long as it remains valid.

same site http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving/validity/faq/index_en.htm

"I was stopped by the police in the Netherlands, where I am now resident, and told that I had to exchange my Danish driving licence for a local model. Is that legal?

YES — but only if your licence is valid for longer than the period allowed by EU rules. In this case the Dutch authorities can make you exchange your licence for a Dutch one. Penalties for driving offences committed in the country of residence may also result in you having to exchange your driving licence."

and with regards to the 'ghost' license

• Is it possible to have two driving licences issued by two different EU countries at the same time?
  
  NO — nobody is allowed to hold more than one driving licence – not even if your driving licence has been withdrawn, you cannot be issued a second driving licence by another EU country.

Not sure how one can have a licence valid for longer than EU rules, if it's an EU licence, as by definition an EU licence is according to the rules. Maybe they mean the old paper ones, or a foreign (outside of Eu) licence.

I didn't say one can hold 2 licences, just that a ghost one is created on which to hold a record. It's never issued, but is used for recording offences carried out in that country. This is certainly the case in the UK.

Davey said:

That's not correct. All EU licenses are valid in all EU countries, until they expire and need renewing. It should then be renewed in the country in which you are resident.

Click to expand...

Correct your EU licence is valid to DRIVE in all EU countries for a limited time but, that is where it ends.

As per Froggy Steve, Spain is pretty much the same, and if you live in Spain for more than 184 days out of one financial year, it becomes your country of residence, you are then liable to pay taxes here, AND change your driving licence. If you bring a UK vehicle here and it stays in the country for more than 12 weeks then it has to be 'matriculated' (registered and imported), then you pay taxes and so forth here.

The traffic police here will take your licence and give you a receipt if the offence is serious enough and send it to DVLA where points will be added. The traffic cars have a credit card reader to take your money 'real time', they used to take you to the ATM but now use the mobile reader.

Remember Spain is like all EU countries, they make the rules in their country that suit THEM, the EU is great for telling us the correct curve radius for a banana but is of little use otherwise IMO.

Another example is when my licence was changed here I kept my HGV entitlement but LOST my bus driver entitlement?
Different rules apply as and when the country decide it. No big deal as I can no longer drive either anyway due to health issues. And just for fun, I will throw in this, a friend needed to renew his licence but had to undertake a minor medical due to his age, eyes/blood pressure and so forth, after passing the medical he then applied for his licence, his application was rejected, because he took the medical in Murcia but his home address is in Almeria, the distance between his house and the medical centre is about 5 miles! It seems the medical in one province is not 'good enough' for another.....go figure.

Frank rabbits said 'Move countries Dave'. Frank I have thought about it a number of times but, when I add it all up Spain wins hands down, in particular (and I am embarrassed to say it) Spain's health system knocks the UK's into a cocked hat.

Immigration in the UK simply means the health system cannot cope, very low immigration here because YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!!!

Don't start me off!!


regards

Dave

Dave said:

They can't force you to change your licence, offence or not. What they can do is create a ghost licence for you on the french system, upon which they add or deduct points. Not sure what happens though when you reach the limit on that though.

Click to expand...

The system as I know it in Romania is that I should exchange my UK license for a Romanian license. I have argued with a police officer that I travel regularly to the UK and need my UK license as much, if not more, than the Romanian license. He muttered about it a lot but couldn't fault the logic.

There's no record that's easily accessible to assess Romanian/UK travel (they used to check your passport stamps, but they don't stamp them anymore) so I have got away with it so far (13 years). In theory, I should have changed it within 90 days (he said).

BTW, no such thing as a ghost license here, either one or the other.

When I first came here and just after buying the house, I was borrowing my bosses wife's car. He's Italian and the car was registered n Greece, with Greek plates. The insurance was Greek, the owner was Italian, the driver was a Brit and at that time I'd left my UK license in Qatar, so I was driving on a Qatari ghost license.

"Where are you going?" said the policeman with the bundle of multi-national documents in his hand, "to my house up the hill" said I, "too complicated" was the reply, "off you go and take care" he said.