12volt start battery question

Hi, when I converted my HDJ81 from 24 volt to 12 volt starting last spring I just stuck in a battery I had to hand because the two existing starter batteries were a bit tired (and I got to fit one of them into a car!)

What cca, brand etc of battery are others running in their 12volt starter 80's?

Need to replace because the cheap chinese (unbranded) battery I stuck in is starting to get a little tired and not hold charge.

Main reason I'm asking is I'll be in UK shortly and will buy one over there because batteries here in Ireland and incredibly expensive

Have to look this weekend but mine's just a Yuasa from Milner. Nothing special. Not filled with unicorn's tears or anything. Probably 600 /700 cca or something

I've just replaced my 10year old Varta's with same. Mine is 24v start and had 2 x 75ah 510 CCA's fitted which were the smaller of the 2 recommended sizes for my LC model and year, the higher rating being 95AH and 830 CCA so I went with the latter. I've been well impressed with Varta batteries over the years and, personally, and wouldn't buy any other. If your fitting 2 batteries you'll probably be fine with the 2 smaller sizes but if only one then I'd go for one of the higher rating. JMO

I put two of these in http://leisurebatteriesireland.ie/xv27-leisure-battery *In Ireland*

IIRC the code is correct but as it was over two years ago when I purchased them I suggest you check the specs/size. They did not get used for a year and were stored in the garage, I charged them with a trickle charge about once every 3 months....ish?

No hassle so far and they have a 4 year guarantee.

For me as they are marine spec that tends to be higher and you get the stud fixings as well, make light of adding cables for winching and so forth.

EDIT: Point of note my vehicle is 12v start so the terminal position was not important, may cause hassle for 24v install, might want to check that out?

regards

Dave

mine are G7 & G8 Varta blue - cold cracking 830

Try Newry Auto supplies or P&R wholesale Newry. Both probably the cheapest in the area and at least you have somehwere to go back if you have a problem. I recently fitted two from Halfords at christmas and think they were about £90 each. Euro Ex rate is crap at the moment and more likley to be a cost factor than the UK/IRL variations. The best place to exchange is the BDC in the Buttercrane Center in Newry. Their rates are up to £0.05 better than any bank or cash machine.

Excuse my ignorance, but why do people convert from 24V to 12V start? I love the fact my LC starts so quickly on 24V no matter what the outside temperature is!

By removing all the 12-24v switchover components and wiring the starting system is simpler and more reliable.......some say. Not convinced personally. The 24v start setup was fitted for a reason IMO so I'm happy leaving mine as is. Cue response from the 24 to 12v converts!

Towpack said:

By removing all the 12-24v switchover components and wiring the starting system is simpler and more reliable.......some say. Not convinced personally. The 24v start setup was fitted for a reason IMO so I'm happy leaving mine as is. Cue response from the 24 to 12v converts!

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I'm with you on this one too!

Reason why I did it, it allows a simple convenient location for a leisure battery under the bonnet (ie where the 2nd starting battery was) rathr than in the cab.

I don't see the point in the 24 volt starter anyway, over half the world got a 12v starter fitted as stock anyway.

From an overlanding/reliability perspective one could also argue that it removes one more potential failure and arguably simplifies things when a jump start is required because you can jump off the leisure battery (or swap them temporarily) if needed.

With you there Yogi. Far less complicated and there is this sort of myth that if you convert somehow the truck won't start anymore? It starts no differently at all. One touch of the key and it's running. There is less current going through the starter contacts for one thing, they aren't any bigger on the 24v unit. Less cables, only one battery to have to replace. More space under the bonnet for other equipment. There isn't a down side to converting. OK you may not want to, but don't say the 80 is less reliable for doing it. These are old vehicles and whilst well made with good components, just how much longer will things like the changeover relay last? Mine was certainly showing signs of burning on one of the terminals.

It doesn't get cold here in the UK, but mine started first flick after being stood for a week when it was -5 in that last snow we had. I know because I went outside to try it on purpose. Not many people do this conversion so it's wrong to suggest that it's some sort of widespread practice.

When you build a vehicle for special purposes like this you tend to add all sorts of extra electrical kit. That means there is always the potential for introducing some kind of parasitic drain. With the cranking battery isolated and all vehicle power coming from the other battery, you should never end up with a flat battery for starting. If I do, then I have put two Optima batteries in (one up front and one in the back) which have universal posts meaning that I can drop a spare battery into the cranking slot. With the 24v start, you need to have two decent batteries to start the engine. If one is down for some reason then the system really knows about it and cranking speed is poor. OK I hear the arguments about cold battery loss and at minus 60 degrees etc etc, but I am not planning to cross the Arctic circle any time soon so it's not really an issue for me. Plus I can connect the two in 12v parallel from the vehicle cabin. Just like the starting system on the Colorado - 2 batteries but not 24v. I have fitted decent batteries and if I ever have to crank the engine more than say 2 second, I know there is something seriously wrong.

Unless you know the reason WHY the 24v start system was fitted then you can't necessarily say the 24v is somehow better because it came like that. Like Yogi said, most of the world got one battery. And no diff locks! Mr T didn't fit diff locks for a reason therefore all diff locks are bad? Err hang on ....

If you want to run standard tyres fine. If you want to leave the third row of seats in, fine. If you like the dim headlights, fine. If you don't want to fit a 3" stainless exhaust fine. If you like tinted windows, fine. If you want a roof tent, go ahead. It's all fine. Do what you like. No one is making anyone convert.

Done mine a few years back now, and apart from one occasion when it did not start caused my over zealous greasing of the starter plunger the engine has never failed to start first time in fact, it stood for over a year and still started first time!

For me travelling into fairly remote areas means I liked the idea of redundancy, I can jump start myself with the auxiliary battery if the main fails. As Chris mentioned, parasitic drag from alarms/clocks/stereo can all pull down your battery, splitting them prevents that, one other thing for me is the ability to monitor battery condition individually, other than when cranking the normal system is 12 volts, i.e. the batteries are connected in parallel, if one fails it will invariably drag the other down with it, having them separated allows me to use the battery monitor to keep an eye on them individually.

Many owners/purists defend the 24v starter system as a sort 'Holy Grail' of starting systems and this may be for good reason, if I lived in the Antarctic I would leave it place, the voltage drop caused by the cold along with the 4.5 kw starter may give you that edge when cold starting, I live in Spain with no plans to get cold so an acceptable modification for my circumstances.

regards

Dave

The current drawn by a 4.5Kw starter is 187.5A on 24V and twice that at 375A on 12V. At 24V everything is stressed less and burning will occur on any pair of electrical contacts.

That said, the space for a leisure battery is a bonus as is keeping winch cables from it short. It's obviously perfectly capable of starting the truck. There's pros and cons with both systems, though I wouldn't say either was unrepairable at the side of the road with sufficient knowledge.

On balance, I would say that if needed the 24v would crank (or power anything) for longer because the 12v has only half the battery capacity.

StarCruiser said:

The current drawn by a 4.5Kw starter is 187.5A on 24V and twice that at 375A on 12V. At 24V everything is stressed less and burning will occur on any pair of electrical contacts.

That said, the space for a leisure battery is a bonus as is keeping winch cables from it short. It's obviously perfectly capable of starting the truck. There's pros and cons with both systems, though I wouldn't say either was unrepairable at the side of the road with sufficient knowledge.

On balance, I would say that if needed the 24v would crank (or power anything) for longer because the 12v has only half the battery capacity.

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With respect, whilst your calculations are correct IF the 12 volt starter was 4.5kw however they are not.

The 12 volt unit for standard 80 is IIRC 2.5Kw i.e. 208.3 A

I use the 12 volt unit from the 100 series and this is 3.0Kw so 250 A

Note that Toyota reverted to the norm of 12 volt starting with the 100 using the same engine configuration as the 80, soooo........(Dave throws some more fuel on the fire )

regards

Dave

V=ir.

My capital letters din't work

Yes, I am struggling to see the cons of the 12v system. I don't think we have any actual evidence of a 4.2 failing to start on 12v. I don't have a huge knowledge bank when it comes to other makes, but I'd bet diamonds that many of the vehicles out in Alaska, Siberia etc are only fitted with 12v start. The biggest issue they face I understand is fuel waxing. Engines are left running overnight to combat this so the starter is irrelevant.

These are healthy debates with a good dose of humour in them, but I think that this one suffers from the same myth and mystery as the one on alloy wheels for overlanding. Ooh you must fit steels as they can be hammered back into shape. Yes and whilst it's never happened, a swan can break a man's leg with one beat of its wings .....

I might be wrong but didn't Clive post elsewhere that he has 1 battery?

MikesVX80 said:

Excuse my ignorance, but why do people convert from 24V to 12V start? I love the fact my LC starts so quickly on 24V no matter what the outside temperature is!

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It will start just as quickly on 12 V, with the right 12 V starter.

If 12v is 'better', why are military and heavy commercial vehicles almost universally 24v?