Suspension advice please for overland trip to China

Hi there,

I have just signed up at this forum. Hello to all of you and thanks in advance for everyones help!

In short:
In less than three months my girlfriend and I will start a 6month adventure in our recently purchased Cruiser. Step by step we are preparing the car for our travels and the next step is: suspension! It needs replacement and we are looking for some advice from your experience.

Some background information:
Car: HDJ 80 4,2 TD '94, about 250k km
Tires: BF Goodrich AT 285/75R, 16 inch, new
Rimsriginal steel
Route: We will travel from The Netherlands to China and back. Roughly 35.000 km. Plan to go to ao Russia, China, Mongolia, all the Stans, Iran, Turkey.
Gear: I think we will have about 350 kg's of extra weight in/on the car. Howling Moon tent, roofrack, extra fluids, extra wheel, tools etc.

Please can you give us advice on the following:
- We are considering either Koni's (top quality) or Monroe's (cheaper, from same manufacturer). Which are better value-for-money?
- Should we raise the car 2 or 3 inches since we are replacing the suspension set
- Any other tips??

As you may have guessed, I am quite a novice in the 4x4 world but ready to learn!

Looking forward to hearing from you

Cheers,
Daan (and Stephanie)

Hi Daan, weirdly I am in a similar situation and planning a similar trip! Personally I am looking at either an Ironman or OME (Old Man Emu) 2" lift kit with new shocks and springs all round, but can't decide which. Will watch this thread to see what advise you get! Any pics of your truck?

Why not use the Toyota shocks. They are designed for the car and last well over 100,000 miles. Not too expensive either. The car was designed to hold the weight of 7 people.

On Tarmac. Without a roof tent, water, roof rack, swing out carrier, single fuel tank ...And as we know shocks are not about weight per se. I just don't think they'd be up to the job. Even with new MrT springs. There wouldn't be a market for uprated parts if the originals were fit for this type of work

He's only driving to China and back. I thought the earth was flat anyway.

Daan.

Is this an offroad or onroad trip >> That will make a huge difference to any advice - offroad you're looking at 2inch lift, camber changes etc etc. Onroad you could have std height springs but higher poundage.

frank rabbets said:

He's only driving to China and back. I thought the earth was flat anyway.

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But you'd need some tough springs for that step at the end.

Hi, and welcome, 350 kg is nothing in an 80. the stock suspension is designed for 8 people (getting old Frank? ), let us assume what 75 kg per person, is that fair so that equals 600 kg? Unsure of your weight but assume 150 kg for you and your co-pilot that leaves 450kg i.e. over and above your requirements. If there is only two people travelling you could remove seats to make more room and even add the seat weight to your payload? 35,000 km's/6 months is a lot to endure comfort wise, you could go too high on your suspension ratings and get it wrong so be careful with this, I would load the vehicle to your expected maximum weight as near as you can. The run it to a public weighbridge and get some figures and then get further advice.

Lifting can be advantageous if you are off road but with weight on the roof then you want to keep your centre of gravity down so I would not go mad with the lift height.

The fact the suspension is worn out then it makes sense to choose carefully and weigh up (no pun intended) your options.

regards

Dave

Although you could put 350kgs into an 80 and still stay well below it gross vehicle weight it would not handle particularly well on standard suspension even in good condition. The suspension is designed to cope with a 350kg load but it is biased towards a load of 1 occupant (driver) and some luggage seeing as that is what an 80 would be carrying most of the time. If you know you will be travelling 35000km with a 350kg constant load with a very large portion of the roads in what Europeans consider to be in terrible condition (trust me, see my link), it would make sense to have a suspension set up biased to a 350kg load. This will significant improve handling, ride comfort, safety and improve reliability of said suspension components.

I would suggest you check that you are actually going to carrying only 350kg, the weight adds up quickly. Budget for at least 20l of emergency fuel and 10l of emergency water per person and the weight of the passengers as well. Best gather everything you will be taking, load it all up, go to a weighbridge and compare it with empty. Then select suspension to suit the predicted load and that can cover at least some excess load in emergencies (see trip link below).

When it comes to what suspension you should go for? Well you will not need a lift but you will find it difficult to keep it at standard height whilst uprating the shocks and spring rates. 50mm lift is acceptable for overlanding, although I would not go any higher. As for what brands, just stay away from Ironman. OME seem to be the cheapest default upgrade for overlanders.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole idea of changing the shocks was primarily to accommodate the lift, whether big or small, as the length of the stock shocks would be too short.

Does Mr T sell longer shocks then?

My 110mm OME lift is ideal IMO, it gives me a good view of the road on asphalt, it doesn't allow any rocking or sway, empty or loaded (and once I did 450 kms with the best part of a tonne of rocks on board) and off road, it's superb.

High enough not to need bash plates (I don't do extreme rock crawling mind) and flexible enough to, well, flex.

If I was popping across to China for a long weekend, I would be happy to take my lift with me, as is.

Enjoy your travels, I'm not at all jealous, not at all, not even remotely.

bugger

Rob said:

As for what brands, just stay away from Ironman.

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Why do you say that, Rob?

Daan, take a look at my thread on this very topic: http://www.landcruiserclub.net/foru...-Ironman-vs-OME-(Old-Man-Emu)-suspension-kits

What route are you taking to China?

Rob said:

Although you could put 350kgs into an 80 and still stay well below it gross vehicle weight it would not handle particularly well on standard suspension even in good condition. The suspension is designed to cope with a 350kg load but it is biased towards a load of 1 occupant (driver) and some luggage seeing as that is what an 80 would be carrying most of the time. If you know you will be travelling 35000km with a 350kg constant load with a very large portion of the roads in what Europeans consider to be in terrible condition (trust me, see my link), it would make sense to have a suspension set up biased to a 350kg load. This will significant improve handling, ride comfort, safety and improve reliability of said suspension components.

.

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Don't agree. The standard suspension is designed to cope with the MGVW and there will be a bit of a margin built in. An 80 series (or any other LC) is not a normal car and the ability to cope off tarmac on crap roads would be in the design brief. Why would a manufacturer fit suspension that falls well short of handling what the vehicle is designed for? They wouldn't. I'm talking about a standard vehicle here with full compliment of passengers and luggage. Fitting a suspension and/or body lift and bolting on several cwt of off roading/overlanding paraphernalia in addition to the 'normal' payload is a completely different scenario. JMO

I am not going to bad mouth OME. They make decent kit but with a poor finish. They shouldn't fall to bits on a typical overland trip with all the gear. But they are nothing special. Someone once said Mouton Cadet don't make any brilliant wines. But they don't make any crap either. I think OME is a bit like that. It's fine. But do you want to pay inflated UK prices for it. This is why people buy Iron Man, because it's very reasonable. And in most applications for a DD it's very comfy. I went to France this year with mine all loaded up and it dragged its arse all the way there and back. I had to ditch it. With the new EFS on there and the full load in the truck including 75 kg of tent, I am hitting ruts, potholes, speed bumps etc and it's like driving a standard unladen 80. I went round the Donnington Airport roundabout this weekend at 40 mph and I reckon I could have had a cup of coffee on the dash. It was unbelievable. I can't give you a long term test on the EFS I haven't had it long enough and I haven't crossed Africa with it. But I don't have any doubts. Just looking at it you can see it's not going to fall to bits. Would I buy OME again, yes I would, but I'd prefer not to.

Mike if you are ever up this way around Jnt 29 come and have a drive of it.

Like you said Towpack, the suspension is designed to cope with MGVW, however it is optimised for light loads seeing as that is what the vehicle will see most of its life. You design a product to cope with limits, but measure/optimise the performance of a product in more favourable conditions unless stated otherwise by the manufacturer. If you were designing a vehicle for the sole purpose of carrying loads then the suspension will be optimised for carrying loads, and the manufacture is likely to claim performance figures whilst carrying loads. The 80 series is a passenger vehicle, not a goods vehicle even though it does cope with large loads better than most passenger vehicles. In this case handling would have been optimised under light loads and only made safe and acceptable under MGVW.

If you know you will definitely be carrying a considerable load over a long distance why not upgrade the performance of the suspension setup to match the load? The terrible roads that I was referring to, which Daan will encounter, are very poor tarmac roads most probably travelling at up to 60mph/100kph. This is where handling and safety are most critical due the way the locals drive. Loosing the ability to steer as the wheels looses contact with the surface due to the really bumpy/patched/rutted tarmac unexpectedly when overtaking a very smokey Kamaz is not a great feeling. You also get forced off the road by oncoming overtaking vehicles onto the gravel verge which usually have very big potholes on a daily basis.

Driving on dirt roads is a different matter, you should be driving a lot slower to account for the limitations of the suspension. As this is a solid axle vehicle it will never handle as well as a fully independent suspension vehicle on corrugations. I never said the vehicle would "fall short" on dirt roads, however upgrade the suspension to match the load and you will get places faster and in greater comfort with less chance of damaging the suspension.

Mike, with regards to Ironman, the spring rate is too low for the load they claim they were designed for when overlanding. The ride is great, so a good daily drive option as Chris said but not up to it for overlanding in the conditions I mentioned above.

Clive, when changing the spring stiffness/rate you will need to change the damping to suit. Also most upgrade aftermarket shock absorbers will have a higher oil capacity compared with the originals so will take longer to overheat on corrugations than the standard ones. As you stated you also need to lengthen the shock absorbers to match longer springs.

Crispin I am getting pretty P8ssed off having to keep re-writing my threads, the 'problem' we worked on awhile ago has returned!

Rob I have to disagree with your opinion that the 80 was optimised for one person and some luggage.

You would not walk into a showroom back in the 90's and spend a lot of money on a Land Cruiser just to be your daily driver. If you had that kind of money to throw around you would have purchased a BMW or Perhaps a Mercedes? No, the 80 was designed to carry 8 people or 5 + luggage in relative comfort and safety, and why your at it hook up a heavy trailer and drag it's arse through a third world country that has probably not even heard of tarmac let alone seen it.

Most people understand you cannot have it all ways but the 80 designers IMO got pretty damn close.

regards

Dave

Rob with regards to the spring rate comment about the ironman springs,out of interest can I ask witch spec spring you are talking about,Is it the B,C or D spec?

Thanks

Dave, I don't know where you were in the 90's be trust me there were many 80's were purchased as single person vehicles. In other words high end company cars. Mine was one in fact. Long distance exec motorway cruisers - many were Rangies and Cruisers so I can't agree with you there. Sorry bud. I had to make do with a Vauxhall and consequently was overtaken many times by single occupant 80's. With no towbar.

Wouldn't disagree with the rest, just not the bit about 80s being only bought by people dragging oak trees behind them. This is after all where the term Chelsea Tractor was born.

clivehorridge said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole idea of changing the shocks was primarily to accommodate the lift, whether big or small, as the length of the stock shocks would be too short.

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I agree Clive but there is more to it than that of course. Travel/spring rates/damping/heat control, I always prefer to do spring/shock changes as a kit from the same supplier, hoping they did their research right. And as with most things different people have different opinions on different brands.

regards

Dave

F**K!!!!!! I just typed a reply to you Chris and the site has crashed again from this end. I hope this goes through and I am giving up trying to get a decent post up tonight....dummy thrown out!!

regards

Dave