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1hd-ft engine rebuild

dellboykev

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Aug 23, 2015
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england
After trying to diagnose some ruff starting, massive blowby and burning oil the engine shop thinks it has a broken ring probably from using some egr cleaner can anyone give me a rough price on what an engine rebuild would cost because the garage hasnt done one before so they dont know, im just trying to figure out how much money i will need to save so i can even afford to get it fixed
 
Doesn't sound great news mate.

Personally I wouldn't be going to a garage that hasn't done it before. Depending if the block is ok. I'd expect £1000-1500 obviously the engine will Prob have to come out etc etc. I could have a word with a couple of people for you if you want?
 
If the bores are OK then then the pistons could be removed and the rings changed with the engine in situ. In this scenario I'd expect more like the £2k mark. An engine out job at least another £1k. These are not complex engines but obviously a garage familiar with them will probably get the job done quicker. If you are lucky enough to find a known good second hand motor a straight swap might be a possibility worth investigating if yours requires an engine out rebuild. JMO
 
thanks for the quick reply's, yea have a word if you would please karl. the garage i will be taking it to is reputable westcoast 4x4 dropped a 24 valve head off for a recon while mine was there getting diagnosed. Im hoping the bores are ok because i could probably stretch to £2000 i would like to do the work my self but i just dont have the time or a space to do it. I was thinking about a replacement engine and i have sent a couple of breakers one ebay messages to price one up but if the prices are similar i think a rebuild would be the way to go
 
If its Westcoast I won't bother having a word around mate. They are great lads. Could have asked me about an engine Kev :think:
 
I'm only half serious about getting another engine but what would be the damage on a replacement engine then karl?
 
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At least it looks good IMG_1387.JPG
 
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I would buy a good second hand engine. There are not many people now with the skills to rebuild an engine as engines don't usually need attention like they did 50 years ago. Anyone could rebuild an engine then lol. Also you don't know the damage to yours until you open it. If it needs parts theses are very expensive fro Toyota and we all know the risks using pattern parts. If they think egr cleaner may have broken a ring that's something they've got wrong straight away. Also if you have massive blowby it will be more than 1 ring at least.

I'm not saying they cannot do the job but if they do leave a message that they MUST glaze bust the bores.
 
Rebuilt my engine completely & bought the kit from Australia via Ebay. Parts were good quality delivered to Cyprus. Much cheaper then buying from Toyota. Including shipping & tax. Can't remember the price exactly now.


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It was me that used the egr cleaner so it's entirely my fault the garage is a good one I have spoke to west coast and the recommend them, I have seen the kit on eBay it's about a grand I'm going to phone the garage today and see if they have a price for the parts yet I'm still weighing up all the options because it's always a gamble with a second hand engine and I don't mind paying if I'm going to get another 200,000 reliable miles out of a rebuild
 
I would love to hand my truck over to the boys at Westcoast for a couple of months because i'm sure it would come back better than new so this is no reflection on them i'm just thinking of your pocket , it always pays to shop around so maybe if you looked at engine restorers and or marine engineers for a quote . Just thinking both often rebuild engines that might be worth more than a new cruiser on completion .
 
I was not saying use of egr cleaner was wrong. I was saying their idea that it could damage rings was wrong.

I would take the head off before ordering parts. This way you can determine to most extent what work will be needed. For example the head may need work. If the bores are damaged the block will have to be rebored or replaced. The bores do not slide out on this engine unlike the incorrect photograph of the parts for the 1hd-ft engine kit on ebay. If you read the list of parts only the pistons are mentioned. Not many places do rebores and considerable extra work is required after the rebore to access all the oil ways to clean them out.

If only the pistons are required it is essential to glaze bust the existing bores otherwise you may well have poor compression and oil consumption.

These are very time consuming engines to work on and if you do not do the 1hd-ft regularly there are a lot of things you can forget during assembly.
 
Could glazed bores actually be the problem Frank ? isn't there an old eggshell trick to cure this ?
 
When an engine is first constructed or rebuilt correctly the bores are honed to give a matt finish rather like a fine nail file. This is done on purpose because the piston rings, which seal the piston against the walls of the bore, have to wear in together with the bores to give as good a fit as possible. It was not possible then, 20 years ago, to machine the bores and rings to such an accurate fit. It may be now as over the last 20 years improvements have been made. The glaze is a result of the engine being run for the first few thousand miles, when the rings and bore wear and polish themselves together, and is very hard and it's achievement is on purpose. It's a bit like polishing steel with metal polish. Metal is removed but the surface is shiny and in the case of the rings and bores the surface becomes very hard due to the properties of the metals. If new rings are fitted to a glazed bore they will not bed in so will always be a less than perfect fit.

When I took the head off my 1hd-ft I could still see traces of the original honing marks giving testament to the very long life of these engines. There was hard glaze there though where the top of the of the original honing had been removed by ring wearing the bores. This engine had done about 140,000 miles.

Shayne I think glazed bores are only a problem when new rings are fitted without first removing the glaze. It's meant to be there after the engine has been run after new or rebuilt properly.
 
When an engine is first constructed or rebuilt correctly the bores are honed to give a matt finish rather like a fine nail file. This is done on purpose because the piston rings, which seal the piston against the walls of the bore, have to wear in together with the bores to give as good a fit as possible. It was not possible then, 20 years ago, to machine the bores and rings to such an accurate fit. It may be now as over the last 20 years improvements have been made. The glaze is a result of the engine being run for the first few thousand miles, when the rings and bore wear and polish themselves together, and is very hard and it's achievement is on purpose. It's a bit like polishing steel with metal polish. Metal is removed but the surface is shiny and in the case of the rings and bores the surface becomes very hard due to the properties of the metals. If new rings are fitted to a glazed bore they will not bed in so will always be a less than perfect fit.

When I took the head off my 1hd-ft I could still see traces of the original honing marks giving testament to the very long life of these engines. There was hard glaze there though where the top of the of the original honing had been removed by ring wearing the bores. This engine had done about 140,000 miles.

Shayne I think glazed bores are only a problem when new rings are fitted without first removing the glaze. It's meant to be there after the engine has been run after new or rebuilt properly.


Can't agree on that one Frank I'm afraid. Bore glazing is undesirable. Glazed bores can be caused by incorrect running in procedures i.e., being too easy on the engine, the result of which means the rings don't provide a good seal. The troughs in the honing pattern fill with glaze and will not hold oil, necessary for ring lubrication, so the rings wear excessively causing blow by and oil consumption problems. Not so common nowadays as modern engines are honed to a finer finish/closer tolerance with less of the final 'machining' being done by the engine itself during running in. Early (80's) Z1000J engines were prone to excessive oil consumption which was attributed to poor running in practice. A heavier throttle hand and an initial fill of mineral oil was the way to go and is still advised by many today. I rebuilt and tuned a Z1000A engine in the mid 80's, rebore, high comp pistons, cams, oversize valves etc, etc and was told by the boring/honing specialist in no uncertain terms to "give it some' from mile 1. Short bursts with cool down periods on overrun. Never had any oil consumption or blow by issues. These are bike engine's, agreed but a piston engine like any other. JMO
 
I was thinking along the lines TP offers , nothing exact in my thinking just a mix and of snippets of info collected over the years . Don't use synthetic oil in old boat engines , a good thrashing to clear out the cobwebs , toodling around never getting up to heat kills diesel engines , and so on and so forth .
 
Rebuilt one in work about 6 years ago and that bill came to 2.5k..
 
thanks for the info guys some useful stuff like you say frank i wont really know what the damage is and whether it will need a rebore until they at least get the head off i think my budget will be around £2000 probably pushing to £2500 so if it does need a rebore that might put it out of my price range but again i wont know until it is apart so it is a catch 22. was £2.5k the final bill for parts and labour and did it need a rebore stumog?
 
I did say to remove glaze but engines have to have some accumulation of it to run gas tight. Too much in an unworked on engine is also undesirable as there are no recesses for oil. Both cases have to be removed.

I used to rebuild engines regularly in the 70's 80's. If the bores were in tolerance diameter I used to "glaze bust" them otherwise new rings would never bed in and I had to strip everything down again. Yes remove the unwanted glaze but only in that circumstance. The used bores were always glazed but did not necessarily use oil if running with the original pistons. The glaze busting was done by using a sprung loaded three legged carborundum stone and I rotated it in a slow drill whilst pushing it up/down the bore.

I expect our understanding of "glaze" differs but without doubt if you don't "glaze bust" as in rehone the bore new piston rings will not bed in.

I've never seen a completely glazed bore that was so evenly shiny that blowby occurred. I agree with you that completely 100% glazed bores may be undesirable but some glazing is necessary due to the rings having to be worn in to the profile of the bore. This, say 50%, glazing seals the rings but on rebuild must be removed.
 
Agree with you all the way on the necessity to break the glaze for new rings. I've seen the three stone device you mention a few times. There are 'glaze busting' oils available now but I've never come across them personally or heard of anyone using them or their effectiveness. I guess if you're faced with an engine strip to cure a glaze problem they may be worth a shot. Some modern motorcycle engines (and possibly cars?) have no steel liners but have a ceramic coating applied straight onto the cylinder walls of the alloy block. This is purely to reduce size and save weight which is obviously of more importance in a motorcycle. The coating is so hard wearing that it will easily outlast the rings. The only drawback is that reboring the engine to repair damage or just increase capacity requires a new ceramic coating and is a more specialised and hence pricier process.
 
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