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2004 TOYOTA LANDCRUISER 3.0 D-4D LC3 - Purchasing

Trevor

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Hi,

First time posting so please be gentle.

After firmly deciding against a Landrover for my first 4x4 because of their appalling reliability, I confidently started to think Toyota.

My budget can only stretch to a 53/04/54 L3, Diesel, Manual which means anything from probably 75 - 95K miles on the clock. I'm looking for a "keeper" to run for at least 5 years and only expect to do 10K a year and a lot of towing.

I have confidently been looking for my prospective purchase until I started reading about engine failures on this forum, can anyone perhaps give me a view on what particulary to look out for with this model when buying and any other known issues.

Any info would be most welcome.

Regards
 

Chris

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Trevor, welcome. A pretty brief reply to get you going. The issues with 'engine failure' are more related to early Colorados - the predecessor to the LC range. The 1KZ-TE had a reputation for cracking heads. The newer D4D found in the LC3, LC4 etc or 120 series as it's known is a pretty good engine. The only issue really relates to injectors. There was a bad batch and some of them ran very noisily. I shall leave someone else to pick up at that point, but the LC3 is a fine machine. I loved mine. And you get a proper locking rear diff.

I'd urge you to consider an auto though. Manual makes sense until you drive one of these in auto then you'll wonder why you didn't have one before.

Chris
 

Andrew Prince

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Welcome Trevor!
Not wanting to second guess your choice, have you considered a 100 series? The 4.2 TD will give you a bit more grunt if you're doing a lot of towing and it's very civilised inside. You might be looking at a slightly older vehicle than the 120 for the same money but they go for ever, so don't let that put you off. The 120 is a great vehicle but as Chris has touched on, and you've obviously figured out for yourself, there have been a few issues with the injectors/oil pick-up which have led to catastrophic failures. You do want to make sure that any 120 has a full service history and see if any work has been done on the engine (such as replacing injectors.

Good luck with you purchase - we look forward to the pics when you've got your new LC parked on the drive :mrgreen:

Cheers,
 

Trevor

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Chris, Andrew,

Thanks for that.

The 4.2 is a bit thirsty for my pocket but I do take your point about towing performance. I find auto boxes are good for town and stop start traffic but much prefer manual for precise gear changes when I want to execute them plus the slightly better fuel consumption.

Is there any way of identifying an LC3 with the bad injectors without actually removing them from the engine? I'm guessing not but it would nice to not buy a lemon if possible, I assume that Toyota would not be too forthcoming in replacing them given that my purchase would be well out of warranty.

I did try post a reply before but seemed to have made a botch of it, so if this appears twice then it's down to my finger trouble.
 

Chris

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Trevor, understand what you are saying but I wouldn't rule out an auto. To start with you'll find it harder to get a manual in an 120. You have to ask why. I think that you might find that fuel consumption might surprise you on the auto - and it's a 5 speed box of course which is very flexible. I went manual last time and did all the clever gear change intervals and I still couldn't get the same economy as I did in the auto. My last 120 auto gave me 28mpg without a problem.

Chris
 

Trevor

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Hmmm, choices, choices,

My assumption was based around the manual being a 6 speed box and that the 6th gear is where you will get the economy. Having read various reviews, it seems a common thread that the auto seems to rev quite high before finally changing gear but I would be interested in your experiences with that.
 
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Chris

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Trevor, are you sure that the manual on a 2004 is a six speed?

Actually I have not driven a 120 manual. So I can't tell you about the ratios. But my experience with Toyota 6 speed (manual) boxes is that in fact all they seem to do is split the 5 ratios across 6 rather than actually give a whole new 6th gear. The old 4 speed auto was a bit agricultural, only going into top at 54mp. The new 5 speed is a world apart.

Chris
 

Crispin

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Hi Trevor,

I have an '04 LC4 manual (5 speed) and wish I had gone for an auto (IIRC, the later ones had a 5 speed auto, my year, only a 4). I do about 20k in traffic a year and the manual is a pain. Many have said the auto is lovely and after driving one, I have to agree.
Things that get to me about the manual are turbo lag becomes very evident, clutch is heavy after an hour of driving and you have to stir the 'box a fair amount in traffic. It's either struggling under the turbo or like a jack-rabbit over it.

If I had the choice again, I would opt for an auto however, I don't dislike it enough to sell it because of this. I plan to keep it till it dies.

It sounds all bad....
For the good points:
A 17 hour drive to Switzerland was very comfortable and easy. It's a great vehicle to chug along in. Fuel consumption is not bad (normal, about 30mpg) if you are not to "spirited" in your driving style. It's 4x4 capabilities "out the box" surprise you. (As a novice, I was really happy / surprised with what it could do)

As for the engine failure, Yes it happens to a tiny few. But put into perspective though, not many brands have a faultless record? Around '06 I believe, Toyota changed the injector seals from copper to aluminium which solved the cracked seal problem and in turn, the engine failures. For all the horror stories you read, you'll not find many people jumping onto a forum and say "Hey folks, I've have 5 years of faultless driving with my 120". You'll always have more visible complaints than compliments. :violin:

I think if your two choices are between landrover and land cruiser and you are worried about reliability, come speak to my neighbour who is again driving a courtesy car while his disco is in for "repairs" :clap:


Oh, and welcome.....


{ps: I've moved this to the 120 section}
 

Crispin

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Sorry, on the noisy side, yes mine can sound a bit like a bucket of bolts in the morning but once the temp gets to about 1/4 the scale it quietens down a bit. In Switzerland and -25 it sounded like it wanted to break. Most unnerving. Still, once it's warm its ok. (I'll get shot for this: It's not as quiet as a disco but then I cannot be certain the disco was actually running, it may have been broken :shhh:
 

Trevor

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I was looking on Autotrader and there is a 2005 (my mistake) quoting a 6 speed manual. I need to think a bit more about manual over auto as the feedback makes some fair points.

My burning question is in identifying the copper injectors, sure I can check the service history to see if any work has been done but if no mention then maybe I buy one I like, put it in to Toyota and get them checked out and changed if needed (£100 per injector plus labour?) or maybe it's a DIY replacement job? (or is there further computer set up stuff to be done as well).
 

Crispin

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On the injector front, you wont be able to tell if they have been replaced by looking at the book. Toyota UK refuse to accept it is a problem, oddly Ireland say "Sure, bring it in and we'll replace them just in case" The only sign that they are cracked is a partially (or fully) blocked oil pickup in the sump. The first symptom of this is a seized engine :o
While that sounds scary, the failures are also where people have neglected the oil change. If you find one that has had all it's oil changes on time, you should be safe as the oil has not had a chance to clog up the pickup due to leaky injector seals.

As for replacing, the injectors from Mr-T are around £400 :)twisted:) incl VAT but labour will be a lot. The part that needs changing though is a 50p washer which can be done yourself (See my other post in the 120 section) if you worried.

I would not worry too much about this, so long as, like with any car purchase, the history is known. All bets are off if there is no service record...


edit: Injectors (genuine) are cheaper from our very own Mr Ian Rubie
 

TonyP

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Crispin said:
...... For all the horror stories you read, you'll not find many people jumping onto a forum and say "Hey folks, I've have 5 years of faultless driving with my 120". You'll always have more visible complaints than compliments. :violin:

Ok, I'll say it. We bought a new 55 plate LC back in 2005 and we have had the 5 years faultless driving. Always serviced on time and we do look after it, in that we don't abuse it (too much)! We have the auto and it's a 5 speed. The only issue I have had with it was after Salisbury plain the alternator stopped charging (must have been crud in the alternator), but it magically fixed itself after a week of driving.... phew.

I like the auto box and it has made no difference as far as off road driving, in fact I would say it has made it easier. Yes fuel economy is not the best at about 25mpg, but then I tend to drive everywhere @ 75-80mph, so really my fault.

Good luck with whatever you choose, I am sure you will be happy!
 

Gary Stockton

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Welcome Trevor,

I've the 5 speed auto, and was always a manual bigot - having driven the auto, I won't drive a 120 manual as my own choice :snooty: , simply because the auto is simply refined and responsive.

I'd also suggest you look to the 100 4.2 - the fuel consumption is as good as the 120, and if you're only doing 10k a year the slight variation won't really make much difference - in fact, I think the 100 can get better consumption than the 120 in some circumstances :roll:
 

Trevor

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Well folks, I'm being swayed towards an auto methinks. Crispin, I read your other post ref injectors. Would it be correct to assume (this is where I am probably being a bit of a newbie) that if the vehicle is running okay then the injectors are likely to be okay. Could i then remove the injectors to check if they have copper washers and if they do I can purchase new improved alloy washers and refit?

If so, where can i buy them from and what is the correct description or part number?

I have a feeling it's probably not this simple but I had to ask.
 

Crispin

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It pretty much is as simple as that. The injectors are not hard to check (depending on your skill :mrgreen: ) and if the washer is copper then replace it with the ali one. If it's ali, replace it because you've disturbed it.

The part numbers for the injector gubbins are:
4* 96721 19017 std Seal
4* 11176 30010 Injector nozzle seat <- this is the one that cracks
4* 23256 30010 Injector ring

I am not sure if you need to replace all the bits around it which I have listed above but coming in at under £20 for everything, it's not worth the headache not to.

The info can be seen here: http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2004_T ... _2201.html
For a price on the parts, send a PM to Ian Rubie who is a member here.

As for the auto thing, take one for a drive (in traffic if you can) and then do the same with the manual. I might be over critical of the manual :x
 
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