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80 series stub axle upgrade

Chris

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Well here we go again. Yet another job you can do, if like me you get bored easily. After exploding one of my outer CVs recently, I reached for a spare stub axle only to find it rather worn inside. You can't see in the pic, but the hole in the middle is actually worn oval. The brass (we'll call it that as it has less letters than phosphor bronze alloy or whatever) collar was also spinning round inside the stub axle. No, it's not supposed to.

P1000735.jpg


The CV had broken so violently that it knocked the old stub out of round and mashed the inside up so badly that the brass collar was fubar. OK I still had spares on the shelf, but one thing an another led me to this upgrade. A quick bit of research revealed that this is how the 100 is set up. So clearly Mr T has been thinking.

You need one of these:
P1000729.jpg


One of these if you fancy it; it's an HDK
P1000730.jpg


Some of these genuine parts

P1000731.jpg


You press this into here

P1000732.jpg


and then follow it with this bit

P1000733.jpg


And there you have a super modern needle rollered 80 stub axle. The CV fits much more snugly into the stub than it does with the collar. The collar naturally does the same job in meeting the outer CV face as it spins.

And this does what exactly? Well who gives a sh...? Well it supports the CV much better in terms of it centrality in the stub, there seems very little run out at all when you spin it. In the old set up, the CV end shaft sort of weathervanes round with just the drive flange cap to hold it central meaning that the bell on the CV could, to a degree, wobble around off centre. Hey, how much I dunno, but enough to wear the brass collar. In vehicles with ailing ABS sensors where that movement can cause the dreaded ABS judder, this might be a fix. It may also wobble less on the halfshaft leading to better inner axle oil seal life. OK - so I'm guessing.

I made a puller from scratch which nearly, but not quite, worked. At all, really. Well it shifted the brass bush a bit. I reverted to a round bar shoved in from the other end and a big hammer. It drove out quite easily.
So I shall strip the other side as I have to put a new CV in there on the long side and drop this in to, then pull the short side (again) and upgrade the stub. Perhaps this weekend.
You can buy the new stubs built up from Milner for £97 plus vat or go down this route for around £40 per side.

Thoughts on the matter should be posted to

I have a different view :think:
Oh do you really :roll:
Who cares :hand:
It's my money :thumbup:
France. :snooty:

:lol: :lol:
I was bored.
 
Great write up. Might we have this linked in the
80 series mods and repairs FAQ
bit at the top of this section please?
 
Well I suppose so. Along with the Walbro fuel pump mod probably.

Sigh.

C

I'll see if I can remember how to do it mate. Back in a bit. :thumbup:

Hold on a minute - it worked. Blimey. I need a beer after that. Oh yes. And someone has already very kindly done the fuel pump one.
 
I have already mentioned the fuel pump one to Crispin I think it was.
 
Well that's a neat idea.... :thumbup:

Go on admit it... how did you work this out exactly?
 
hmmm... very interestin and good write up as always Chris.

Tempted to do this when I rebuild my front axle.

What is the part no. for the bush?
 
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that is some impressive modding!

is that a standard 80 stub axle with bits from a 100? does the needle bearing need greasing somehow?
 
It's a standard 80 stub, yeah. Well the idea came from one of our members really. Was it Brett? who wanted some new stubs and I went to Milner to see if they were genuine. When they pulled them out of the box for me to photograph, I spotted the new set up. So I asked them for the bits. They already stocked the flange bit and I ordered the needles from them too as they said they could get them. After more silliness than you could possibly imagine, the parts that they said they'd forgotten to order - because I didn't actually say that I really really wanted them - appeared on the shelf. It turns out that they were smarter than they gave themselves credit for. And, once again I was right! :whistle:

So that's it really. I traced the parts numbers backwards through TOYO and they appear to be front 100 parts.

The brass bush is 90381-35001 and the needle roller are 90364-33011

It will get slathered in grease, yes, but I am wondering about using Maxima, marine grease. If you think about it, there is the chance for CV grease to work its way down there and I'm not sure if really CV is the right stuff in that applications. Marine grease stays put and would help to prevent water coming back down the axle tube into the CV.

Chris
 
I got a quote to replace my original bush in my 80 stub axle and the Toyota dealer said that it has been superseded by the needle roller variety and that it comes in 2 parts. Got a price and was rather shocked so I didn't bother... But next axle rebuild its a definite going by the state of my current ones.
 
I think the brass full bush / collar is in excess of £70. No sweat fitting it, but at twice the price?

I don't think so.

This is a good option I think. Maybe mine is a hybrid now. Landcruiser 180 series :dance:

Chris
 
Chris said:
It's a standard 80 stub, yeah. Well the idea came from one of our members really. Was it Brett?

Chris

Yes it was me, still haven't fitted mine yet though :oops:
 
Ordered me some of this blue goo. There are several marine application greases which are good in boat trailer wheel bearings etc but I have seen this used in off road applications before. To great acclaim I might add.

Some are one step up from tar and some are quite sophisticated. Zinc Oxide seems to be an important anti corrosion additive.

http://www.freeflowmoto.com/maxima-raci ... 3297-p.asp

This is designed for wet applications such as motocross bikes. I only need a smear really on the rollers and some in the stub tube to keep the water out. Whilst the axle is relatively well sealed, there are places for water to get in, especially if the axle get cooled quickly in water and the breather isn't working. I pack my swivels with as much CV grease as I can so that there is no room for anything else but it's still common to find a little puddle in there at least. So we'll see if this super-grease helps. I'm happy that it will be fine in the stub. I don't think that standard bearing grease is much good. OK been around a long time, but it migrates pretty extensively in the hub I find. It might be beneficial to use this product through the whole of the wheel hub assembly.

Chris
 
Chris,

did you use the supplied HDK snap rings or buy genuine?
 
I went with HDK. Is that a bad move?

Chris
 
Not sure specifically to HDK but other aftermarket CV's have had a bad rep for seperating from the shaft if you use the aftermarket snap ring.
 
Too late to edit but my previous post should have read:-

other aftermarket CV's have had a bad rep for NOT seperating from the shaft if you use the aftermarket snap ring.
 
I may well go with the mar tacking mod. Although I am still unsure as to what would happen if I didn't tack it, but also didn't use the snap ring. I don't think that there is sufficient end float for the shaft to not be engaged enough in either end - diff or CV. I am not suggesting that I am going to try it, but it does make me wonder.

Chris
 
Installed the needle rollers today and the new CVs. I have mar tacked the shafts, but only after some long hard thinking. One of the lads (Chris) from Spondon Off Road came over today and we fiddled with half shafts, CV, stubs etc and concluded that in fact on the front of an 80 you really don't need the CV circlip nor do you need to mar tack it. I shall explain.

The CV once in the stub has very little end float. Assembled up, the end of the shaft where it pokes through the flange has 10mm float max. Once the snap ring is on, this is reduced to about 2 - 3 mm. So in reality the CV doesn't move very far in its life.

With the internal snap ring in place inside the CV, the drive shaft actually does still have a quite a bit of float. But not quite enough for the drive end of the shaft it to hit the inside of the diff. Well we don't think so but it must be close. In forward mode the inside of the carrier is going round with the shaft, so if it did touch there would be no speed differential. OK when turning tight, there will be output shaft speed differences but the carrier which is solid can only go round at one speed. It could be that there is wear on the end of the shaft, but as there can be no lateral load on the shaft to ram it into the carrier and it's full of oil, so I don't buy that really.

When turning tight, I presume that the shaft probably has to slide in and out of the CV or diff to a degree, because the length (probably) changes, effectively. As suggested I put tape on the splines, assembled the axle and the tape got pushed off the splines completely. There was full engagement of the splines into the diff it seems.

I decided to mar the shaft in the end after lots of thinking. I wish I hadn't now. Here's why. Even though I only marred the splines by about 5mm, once assembled I found that the end float at the drive flange had all but disappeared. What this meant was that when I came to put the nut on the 54mm socket wouldn't reach to tighten the nut up!!! The CV shaft hit the inside of the socket. OK I have a box spanner so I was fine. But it's not as good as using the socket. Normally the CV slides into the flange and you have to pull it out with a bolt screwed into the end - yes?. Effectively now, I don't even need the snap ring on the end of the CV by the drive flange.
I would seriously consider not tacking the shafts again. I'd just leave off the snap ring. If anything, I might take a punch and spoil the splines 2mm in from the shaft just to stop it touching the carrier.

As always, these are my observations and open to discussion. There may be vehicle differences of course, but there is now way on earth that the shaft could float far enough to drop out!! Remember that without the CV snap ring in place, the outer part of the drive shaft comes into play. Yes there is a groove machined around it, but the splines continue right to the end so they will still engage in the CV to take load.

Incidentally, the new HDK CVs stripped first clonk when I came to take them apart to get the snap rings out.

So if anyone has better info on this please share.

Chris
 
Cannot the snap ring have a chamfer ground on it so that it will more easily slide into the splined hole?

Frank
 
Frank I thought about that too. I think that you could make the snap ring more de-snapable.

I think that would be best done on a lathe though rather than caveman style in my garage.

C
 
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