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Alternator mod.

Gav missin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
1,287
Getting fed up replacing alternator after taking the off roader for its regular swim. Was wondering if anyone has moved there's up. Considering using the a/c compressor bracket (ac redundant) on top of the engine as a starting point for a fixing. Pulleys look as though they should line up with a couple of fabricated plates. Are there any potential pitfalls anyone can think of that i have overlooked. Cheers Gav
 
I can't think of anything other than cable lengths and belt alignment.

Regards

Dave
 
I've never looked for one but can you get a water cooled alternator? I know Ronny Dahl on you tube did for his 79 series after replacing loads of alternators. Probably stupidly expensive but so are replacement alternators.
 
My distributor cap got water in at the weekend and it's at the top of the engine.

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It has a rubber seal and I have greased all round the seal, the only place I can't seal is underneath where my finger is as there are 2 slots beneath there under the cap which I think are a kind of breather. Water still got in through there though!

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IMO Richard, the dilemma of whether to seal against water getting, or whether to vent it to allow water to escape and/or evaporate, is a difficult one to deal with.

The same applies to chassis and body box-sections, historically. Chassis box-members are always vented, on my 80 there are holes all over the place in the box-section chassis rails, specifically for this purpose. If they were sealed (and that’s not hard to do at the factory) moisture in the air inside the boxes, would rust through the steel in no time.

When I was a boy :)violin: no, it was after the war :lol:) a teenager say, I used to weld up old cars for pocket money. I learned very quickly (the hard way) that by sealing a sheet steel box-section with continuous welds, the steel would rot through from the inside, in some cases in less than 6 months!

Venting them, by prying apart the seams and welding in stitches between the vents, they would go many years without issues.

The same applies (IMO) to things like distributors, where I’ve experienced tracking caused by damp (condensation) allowing an HT arc-over, that burns a track and then you have a nice line of carbon (from the burn) which acts like a superconductor for the next damp spell coming along. Before you know it, the inside of the cap will be like a discotheque with HT losses flashing around in all directions.

I think the best bet is to replace the cap with new, then spray the outside (and occasionally re-spray) with a water repellant, but none of this will cure water ingress during wading, if the water level goes above the cap.

Military vehicles are often equipped with sophisticated specially sealed (but probably vented with breather tubes) components for this purpose, maybe you could get your hands on a military spec distributor, if such a thing exists.

One of the advantages of a diesel (I’m afraid) you only really have the air intake to worry about.

I’m no fan of wading, I must admit, I hate the idea of the alternator and starter motor being totally submerged. I’m always surprised when I see them still working after such treatment.
 
Surely an alternator is expected to get wet on vehicles such as ours , could it be mud rather than water that's killing it ?

Maybe a good rinse out at the end of the day would help .
 
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Clive even if I sealed and vented the distributor cap, the alternator is still below it! It is squeaking slightly on start up now, I cut the a/c belt off yesterday because of a squeaking tensioner, and the water I was going through was not that deep, I think it was pouring through the rad and getting flung about by the fan. I think machines and water just don't mix well, diesel or petrol.

When I steam clean trucks for MOT I am always careful to avoid the alternator, as otherwise you end up with a red battery light on the dash on the way to the test station...

The water cooled alternator is a good idea, they are reasonably common and priced on eBay, although I wonder if they are totally sealed. Perhaps a normal alternator could be made to be waterproof? Which bits are sensitive, probably only the diode pack, the brushes, the connections, and the bearings.
 
The genuine Denso alternators have covers for the brushes and all the electronics are sealed in resin so they shouldn't have problems with water alone. The trucks have wading depths of around 600mm or top of tyre IIRC so something is not right. Steam and pressure cleaning are always going to push water in past seals so as said, best avoided but there's a whole heap of difference between a 1000 psi lance and a dip in some water. There's a very good chance that the 'dead' alternators are simply suffering from stuck brushes and will do another turn if serviced. Bearings should be sealed and survive if they are of sufficient quality.

I do find that 'should' is a very useful word.
 
Yep, all the above.

I too think theres a progressive difference between rain and road spray ingress, the effects of a medium wading depth. (As recommended top of tyre) which would pitch the starter motor under water but likely the alternator would get an enhanced “spray” flung off the fan, and then the effects of a deep wade with a snorkel, where the whole lot would go under if you go in up to the bottom of the screen.

Like I said, I try to avoid it, and play safe.
 
Surely an alternator is expected to get wet on vehicles such as ours , could it be mud rather than water that's killing it ?

Maybe a good rinse out at the end of the day would help .
Yeah agree Shayne. Its a mix of sand clay and water killing mine. Mind you im wading 4 to 5 foot with water over the windscreen. I'm on 35s with about 6 inch lift. Just thought maybe getting it high as possible may help a little. Its my fault im doing one a month but it's fun at the time and the boy love's it. My rough measurements would see alternator at about 4 foot so alowing for a bowwave was hoping might help a little.
 
On a 60, the alternator is where you are proposing Gav and there are less cooling gaps. But I expect it would be like a washing machine in there when the fan starts going under. A fan cut off switch would be handy but that would mean an electric fan conversion too.
Not sure what to suggest ref waterproofing in situ, but would have thought moving it should be better.
 
Richard check your engine breather is clear. I had an off roader once that kept conking out through water in the dizzy cap. Sealing did not work as water vapour was coming up the dizzy shaft and condensing inside. Took a month to find out what was wrong. The engine breather pipe was plugged with mud.
 
On a 60, the alternator is where you are proposing Gav and there are less cooling gaps. But I expect it would be like a washing machine in there when the fan starts going under. A fan cut off switch would be handy but that would mean an electric fan conversion too.
Not sure what to suggest ref waterproofing in situ, but would have thought moving it should be better.
Yeah agree ben. To be honest its only
The genuine Denso alternators have covers for the brushes and all the electronics are sealed in resin so they shouldn't have problems with water alone. The trucks have wading depths of around 600mm or top of tyre IIRC so something is not right. Steam and pressure cleaning are always going to push water in past seals so as said, best avoided but there's a whole heap of difference between a 1000 psi lance and a dip in some water. There's a very good chance that the 'dead' alternators are simply suffering from stuck brushes and will do another turn if serviced. Bearings should be sealed and survive if they are of sufficient quality.

I do find that 'should' is a very useful word.
Yes Richard its normally only a strip and clean up and they are serviceable again. Do suffer on the bearings though as sandy water acts as grinding paste.
 
The trIck with distributors is to fit the cap with a breather as you would an axle, then use flexible sealer as a gasket when puting the cap on. Distributors must be vented at all times, this is to pevent vapour build up being ignited by the HT.

My engine cooling fan is switched off during wading, no water being thrown around the engine bay, diesels tolerate being dunked better than petrol versions though.

Aternators do get wet but soon dry out, and I have to agree that mud plays a big part in the failures.

Regards

Dave
 
High amp alternator on mine is from the Toyota Sequioa, there are two available, a 130 amp and a 150, both are virtually a bolt in easy job.

They are both available with either a square 4 pin plug or the typical oval 3 pin as per most UK 80's, it matters not as the 4 pin plug is a quick fit, just leave one of the four pins disconnected, need to have a hunt for the correct one to leave off but there is a diagram on the net .

Body is larger but bolts on to the stock support, only the adjustment bracket needs some modification.

The serpentine pulley unbolts and the stock twin 'V' 80 pulley bolts straight on, probably the easiest alternator upgrade about using OEM parts for reliability.

Hope that helps,

Regards

Dave
 
The trIck with distributors is to fit the cap with a breather as you would an axle, then use flexible sealer as a gasket when puting the cap on. Distributors must be vented at all times, this is to pevent vapour build up being ignited by the HT.

My engine cooling fan is switched off during wading, no water being thrown around the engine bay, diesels tolerate being dunked better than petrol versions though.

Aternators do get wet but soon dry out, and I have to agree that mud plays a big part in the failures.
I had my distributor vented but didn't stick with it (not doing enough water crossing to warrant it). Being able to switch off the fan during wading would make a (better) bigger difference I'd suspect
 
what do they use on the Yanmar Marine version of the Toyota motors?
 
These last few posts reminds me of when I'd booked in my XJ12 for steam cleaning of the engine bay many years ago but all they did was spray some degreaser around and wash it off with a hose pipe on a hot tap, no waterproofing of electrics or bugger all! Took quite a bit of cranking to get the thing to fire and I think I got home on about 7 cylinders. The inside of the dizzy cap was wet through. Took me 2 days to get all the pots firing.

Rusting of steel requires both water and oxygen. A perfectly sealed and dry box section cannot rust to any degree. There will be probably water vapour in the air trapped inside but even so, the rust process will stop when the oxygen is used up. Any 'sealed' box sections that rust out are almost certainly not completely gas tight allowing the oxygen to be replenished. JMO


I've been using this stuff http://www.acf-50.co.uk/marine.htm on the all the electrical connectors. I used it on the speed sensor sensor connector on the front wheel of the dirt bike which was always failing after immersion and it's not failed since.
 
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