ARB brackets ... bolts made of cheese!!

[knicko]

Got the MOT coming up in a couple of weeks and while I'm fairly happy (touch wood), as it was a dry day I thought I would attack a few jobs in anticipation of the test.

1. Strip the rear disks, fit the extended dog bones and generally lube the handbrake parts etc
2. Fit new rear ARB bushes that I've had on the bench for a few weeks (rear drop links already done as they were totally shot)
3. Fit new front ARB bushes and drop links, which I bought at the same time as the rears

Job 1 - all completed easily and handbrake nice and efficient (thanks for the modded dog bones Chris). Only thing I've noticed on these is the handbrake pulls up tight on about the first click while you have your foot on brake pedal. Then as you release the pedal, the handbrake goes slack and needs pulling up a few more clicks before it holds firm. Not sure why this should be as the footbrake disc pads and handbrake drum shoes are independent of each other?

Job 2 - went to release one of the two 12mm bracket bolts on the offside rear ARB and sheared off the bolt... of course!! Why oh why do these Japanese 4X4s make their bolts out of cheese? More luck than planning, but at least the bolt I sheared was one of the easier ones to access the captive nut on the inside of the box section. I was able to drill through the whole lot and replace with a stainless nut & bolt. I've left the rest of the bolts well alone and will hope the ARB bushes are good enough to pass the MOT as they are. Thank god I didn't attempt to remove the nearside ARB bracket first as on initial inspection, it looks like there is no easy access to the captive nut inside that box section and I'm quite sure I would have sheared the bolts.

Job 3 - not even attempted after the close shave with job 2. I will plan to do jobs 2 & 3 when the weather is better, there is longer daylight and I am prepared with the right tools to deal with those cheese bolts!! Never gets boring.

 

[Grimbo]

What happens is the bolt extends through the captive nut and then rusts on the threads....as you undo the bolt it locks up then shears....
If you undo it a bit then do it up again and keep working like that they will often undo.... worst thing you can do is try a rattle gun on them.
Often as you try and drill a pilot hole for the stud extractor the sheared off bit will wind straight through the captive nut

 

[knicko]

Thanks Grimbo, I'll give that technique a try when I revisit the jobs.

 

[wedgetail]

Which brackets and bushes are we talking? ARB is normally OEM quality, never had an issue with their quality. The Japanese bolts on these 4x4s are appropriate to their job - a Toyota grade 11 flange bolt is tougher than a 12.9

 

[knicko]

It's the anti roll bar bush brackets. Nothing wrong with the parts, it's the removal of original mounting bolts that's the issue.

 

[wedgetail]

Ah i see, that makes sense. I could see UK conditions being hard on them. Grimbo’s advice is spot on. But for snapped bolts and studs I find stud extractors are worth their weight in sh*t, it’s straight to the MIG with a washer I go - nothing beats it.

went to release one of the two 12mm bracket bolts on the offside rear ARB and sheared off the bolt... of course!! Why oh why do these Japanese 4X4s make their bolts out of cheese?

It was this statement that made me think the bolts were being accused

 

[knicko]

Indeed, it's the good old British weather taking it's toll... every bolt you look at undoing seems to be a lottery!

On that note, if I replace bolts with same thread size stainless steel ones (I think this means a 13mm replacement for the Toyota 12mm ones), will there be issues with mixing stainless steel bolts with the original steel captive nuts? I know the electrolytic reaction between some different metals is a problem, but not sure about different grades of steel?

 

[Tractionman]

I've replaced various bolts with s/s into mild steel coated with copper grease and never had any issues

 

[Towpack]

What happens is the bolt extends through the captive nut and then rusts on the threads....as you undo the bolt it locks up then shears....
If you undo it a bit then do it up again and keep working like that they will often undo.... worst thing you can do is try a rattle gun on them.
Often as you try and drill a pilot hole for the stud extractor the sheared off bit will wind straight through the captive nut

That's exactly what happened to the upper rear shock mounting bolts when I came to fit new shocks. The bolts spun out a couple of turns then locked solid. I ended up doing as you suggest, together with some heat and eventually they came out. A bit of a faff but nothing compared to shearing them off and dealing with that!

 

[knicko]

OK, so I'd like to get a load of stainless steel bolts of various lengths, to replace the very common 12mm bolts that Toyota use. I'll just keep them in store until I need to rely on them as jobs come up.

I'm a bit uneducated on bolt threads and how sizing works, but I've noticed a supply of 13mm SS bolts I already have laying around in the garage always seem to fit where the Toyota 12mm ones came out. Apart from the obvious variation in length of bolts, are all the 12mm bolts on our vehicles the same thread design/pitch?

I'm hoping I can just buy a load of 13mm bolts and apart from selecting the best length for the job, they will all be interchangeable.

I appreciate there are other sizes of bolt used around the vehicle but in my experience, the larger nuts and bolts seem to fare better than the 12mm ones.

 

[Tractionman]

Metric threads are not all the same knicko. There are fine, standard and one other I think.
I measured mine with a thread gauge, and can't remember what I've used.
IIRC 1.5mm, but don't take that as said. Theres lots of people on here more knowledgeable with that, so hang on.

 

[knicko]

Thanks Tractionman.

I thought I should educate myself on how the metric thread system works and started with this...

WTAF!!!! I've quickly realised there are two sorts of people in the world... people who can understand this and people like me, who have saved every nut and bolt for the last 30 odd years in an old Quality Street tin (when they were big) and when we need one, just keep trying different bolts until we find one that fits.

 

[Tractionman]

Haha, I'm the same mate, to me some twat with time on their hands wrote that, dates back to the pyramids. Probably handy for someone who understands it, ( is there anyone) ? and doesnt need to do the job for a month of Sundays. I could never grasp that shit at school, - or since.
Easier to get yourself a set of thread gauges, foldable like a pocket knife, and available cheaply on ebay.
These do all different threads, outer for bolts, inner for nuts, and you can use them time and again with all those old nuts and bolts in a quality street tin. My old ones are in several biscuit tins.

 

[Shayne]

Metric fine 1.50 does most but here and there the buggers make life difficult with a 1.25 fine thread , recovery hooks and maybe tow bar as i recall .

 

[Shayne]

A Genuine Toyota Wheel Stud that the wheel bolts on to, fits the Land Cruiser 100 & 200 Series as listed.
There are 5 studs per hub, at one end is the spline which when pressed into the hub prevents the stud turning. Old studs are usually punched out of the hub with a drift.
The same stud will fit either the front or rear hubs and are sold individually.

Only ever torque a wheel stud to the manufactures specification, using air guns can stretch and weaken the stud eventually causing it to fail.

We sell the original Genuine Toyota front wheel stud which is has a M14 x1.5mm thread and made from Toyota's exacting tolerances and high-grade materials.

 

[Tractionman]

Shayne, you got the right thread here??

 

[Shayne]

Nah i've changed loads of bolts and theres nowhere local i can take what i have and say can i have a new one please so i end up trawling the web for them .

Spalding fasteners can usually help .

M10 x 1.5 or M14 x 1.25 whatever , just an example .

 

[Beastrider]

Hello Knicko - the Metric thread system is a million times easier than dealing with the imperial ones (UNF UNC BSW BSF BA etc). Metric is simply the outer diameter of the thread and the distance between the threads (pitch). So, for example M8x1.25 means 8mm OD with 1.25mm thread pitch. The 12mm and 13mm you referred to above is the dimension across the flats of the hexagon and the size of the socket you need. Generally, in industry, an M8 uses a 13mm socket but Toyota are usually 12mm - don’t know why.
Like others, I have replaced small non-structural bolts with stainless - E.g. bumper trim bolts, underbody shields. The Toyota M8 bolts are 1.25 pitch and I got my stainless equivalent versions from Screwfix.
Generally my 95-series uses M8x1.25, M10x1.25 and M12x1.25 (but not always), so absolutely buy a metric thread pitch gauge and then you’ll know for sure.

PS - I can’t think of any reason why your handbrake travel is affected by the footbrake. They are independent systems

 

[knicko]

Hello Knicko - the Metric thread system is a million times easier than dealing with the imperial ones (UNF UNC BSW BSF BA etc). Metric is simply the outer diameter of the thread and the distance between the threads (pitch). So, for example M8x1.25 means 8mm OD with 1.25mm thread pitch. The 12mm and 13mm you referred to above is the dimension across the flats of the hexagon and the size of the socket you need. Generally, in industry, an M8 uses a 13mm socket but Toyota are usually 12mm - don’t know why.
Like others, I have replaced small non-structural bolts with stainless - E.g. bumper trim bolts, underbody shields. The Toyota M8 bolts are 1.25 pitch and I got my stainless equivalent versions from Screwfix.
Generally my 95-series uses M8x1.25, M10x1.25 and M12x1.25 (but not always), so absolutely buy a metric thread pitch gauge and then you’ll know for sure.

PS - I can’t think of any reason why your handbrake travel is affected by the footbrake. They are independent systems

Top man, thank you mate.

 

[Grimbo]

Another complication with bolts is some you buy are "set " bolts...ie threaded their entire length....
Normal bolts have an unthreaded shank so to speak and in metric that is a given length for a given thread size and bolt diameter ....however the problem is often manufacturers will use bolts with a different length shank so the bolt will either bottom out in the thread before it's tight against the retained part or will not locate the part securely because the unthreaded part is a bigger diameter and if the shank isn't through that hole the item can move slightly....