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Batteries

Bat21

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Having now done the 12 volt starter conversion, it's time to get a decent starter battery in the passenger side space.

I have currently got two in that space, a Varta Black Dynamic and an Optima Yellow Top 4.2. The plan is to move the Optima over to the drivers side and use it to power auxiliary kit, then replace the current passenger side starter.

Any recommendation for a decent battery for starting etc?
 
First...choose same type of battery. The Optima and the Varta BD are not the same. The optima or any type of AGM battery is not a good idea unless you've done the appropriate changes to your charging system. They just need higher voltage to charge or they will die soon after you get them.
Varta is not a name of quality for quite some time now. Don't really know what is good any more. Had EXIDE for awhile but was not happy with. Now I have 3 x 80 aph Banner Uni Bull and I'm very happy with them. I did real tests on a few batterie before I chose these. What I did was drop their charge as low as I can trying to get under 10V. And keep them that way for a month. The only battery that recovered in full was the Banner. I did that test on Exide, Bosch Silver, Banner and Monbat (local brand).
I had the Banner Uni Bull in my other 80. They were 7+ years old when I've replaced them with new ones. Nothing was wrong, just the idea they were 7 years old made me do that. I gave them away to a friend and there're still alive. Now they're 9+ years old.

Hope I was helpful :)
 
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Interesting George. That's a pretty harsh test. What age where the batteries and what kind of charger did you use out of interest? Yours is the first voice I've heard to say Vartas are not good and I'm surprised at the Bosch (on mine at present). I've had a Varta go flat after non use on a Smart car (long story:angry-screaming:) which has come back good and strong with a Ctek on it. I had it tested and it came up good so went for the Ctek and all has been well since.
 
I have Ctek MXS10 charger. I used new batteries(did not pay for them) for the test. They all recovered in full BUT only the Banners would hold charge. Part two of the test was after I charge them leave them for a week and see what happens.All of them except for the Banner went under 10V.
I'm surpriced As well that brand names such as Bosch ect. are no good anymore. By no good I mean extreme usage, not the usual everyday use such as start in the mornig, drive an hour, then start after work an drive again for an hour and do that for five or six days in the week ect.
Keep on mind that is my subjective opinion and is based on practice and not theory:)

P.S. My neighbour has Nissan Patrol with new huge Bosch (something) battery. If he doesnt drive it for a week the battery goes dead. We've mesured if there's any leak but nothing more than what the alarm requires. Around 0,05 amph
 
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Varta is not a name of quality for quite some time now.

I'll give you an argument right there. My last pair were over 9 years old when I changed them. They had survived being severely flattened a few times (thanks to a faulty relay current drain problem) but still came back up. Personally, I have no need of expensive Optima batteries so would never pay the prices they ask for them. JMO
 
I wonder if there are differing quality batteries from the same manufacturer that generally go to different markets? They can't all be made in the same factory for instance. Maybe some are better than others? Just thinking out loud.

I don't suppose we can get the Banner batteries in the UK. Maybe they are constructed more like leisure or leisure/starter or traction batteries and can take deep discharge.

Edit- just found Banner batteries on eBay!
 
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I wonder if there are differing quality batteries from the same manufacturer that generally go to different markets? They can't all be made in the same factory for instance. Maybe some are better than others? Just thinking out loud.
I'm 100% sure on that! BG and GB are very different markets...unfortunately.
 
I'll give you an argument right there. My last pair were over 9 years old when I changed them. They had survived being severely flattened a few times (thanks to a faulty relay current drain problem) but still came back up. Personally, I have no need of expensive Optima batteries so would never pay the prices they ask for them. JMO
No doubt about the quality of Varta or Bosch made a decade ago. I'm talking about my observation on the performance of few newer Vartas around me lately. I have nothing against any brand of batteries nor I represent or benefit from sales of any brand. As long as they work for me I'm fine.We all have specific needs but thats a whole different story I suppose.
I found out years ago I don't need AGM(Optima) batteries so I don't use one anymore. I paid the price only to find oud I could have bougth something more useful for the truck than an Optima:)

...I know for fact Varta has a new owner for the past few years and they use recycled leаd....whatever that means it doesn't sound good to me:)
 
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I would have thought that recycled lead was potentially better than raw lead given that the new stuff has to be mined and extracted. It must surely be down to the removal of impurities wherever it comes from. The better refined the more costly the raw material I would imagine.
 
I've just bought new Vartas, so I'll see how they hold up.

The guy told me they were made in the Czech Republic, the alternative he was recommending was Moll, made in Germany for about the same price.
 
I've just bought new Vartas, so I'll see how they hold up.

The guy told me they were made in the Czech Republic, the alternative he was recommending was Moll, made in Germany for about the same price.
I'm curious Clive. Report once in awhile and try to compare with your previous experience pls.

I found an old Varta in the garage half an hour ago (got curious what I have) that says its made in Germany....I keep old batteries because of the acid. I don't buy the s**ty electolyte from the stores, I maintain my batteries with the real thing, Oh, yeah! Most of the batteries that sais "MAINTENANCE FREE" is good to maintain once in awhile:) You can find hidden under the stickers or under some fancy cups the plastic screws. Unscrew them carefuly and see if your battery needs some liquid. I usally do that before and after summer. I don't recomend bougth fluids. Just find an old battery and get what you need from there. Thats for the wet acid batteries.
Our TLC80 are not ment for AGM Batteries. Well not without tuning. Our mate Olaz has explained very well in a thead here what and why he's done to tune his charging system in order to charge properly and accident free an AGM batteries. I'll try to find it and post the link here. Very helpful explanation.
 
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I would have thought that recycled lead was potentially better than raw lead given that the new stuff has to be mined and extracted. It must surely be down to the removal of impurities wherever it comes from. The better refined the more costly the raw material I would imagine.
Sounds right. I'm not an expert:) I find the idea of doing some research on the subject helpful for me and will do so.
 
Lead from recycled batteries is contaminated, primarily with sulphur and antimony. Most impurities are removable but depends obviously on the depth and integrity of the recycling/purification process. The intended use of the recycled lead product is the main factor governing the process.
 
Thanks for all the useful info here.

My Optimal Yellow top is only used for running auxiliary lighting and camping kit etc + the Warn Winch.

It is interesting to read Olazz's findings, my Optima is 7 years old and seems to be fine.... but after reading that article I'm beginning to wonder if I have just been lucky.
 
Am I right in thinking this (link) is NOT an AGM battery?

I might dump the Optima and go for two of these.
 
Am I right in thinking this (link) is NOT an AGM battery?

I might dump the Optima and go for two of these.

You are right it is not an AGM battery :).

The article contains lots of useful info, though I am somewhat puzzled by what they say about solenoids. A properly specified continuous duty solenoid should work well if used correctly. This would appear to born out in the experience of Ken in the following two posts in the thread.

I don't see anything in the article that suggests there is anything intrinsically wrong with AGM batteries or Optima. That said, flooded batteries are normally expected to last 2-3 and AGM 4-5 years.

One significant thing is is how well the article highlights the importance of voltage in charging rather than just lots more amps. Bear in mind most AGM batteries recommend a maximum charging current of 20% of the rated ah capacity. So for a 55ah optima this would be a charging current of 11 amps. A flooded battery is usually is recommended to be charged with a maximum current of 10%. So for the same 55ah capacity it should have a maximum charging current of 5.5 amps. Much of this is to do with the heat generated by the charging process. AGM batteries have a lower internal resistance and thus generate less heat.

The battery you linked to recommends a maximum charging current of 10% of its 80ah capacity so 8amps.
 
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I'm curious Clive. Report once in awhile and try to compare with your previous experience pls.

I found an old Varta in the garage half an hour ago (got curious what I have) that says its made in Germany....I keep old batteries because of the acid. I don't buy the s**ty electolyte from the stores, I maintain my batteries with the real thing, Oh, yeah! Most of the batteries that sais "MAINTENANCE FREE" is good to maintain once in awhile:) You can find hidden under the stickers or under some fancy cups the plastic screws. Unscrew them carefuly and see if your battery needs some liquid. I usally do that before and after summer. I don't recomend bougth fluids. Just find an old battery and get what you need from there. Thats for the wet acid batteries.
Our TLC80 are not ment for AGM Batteries. Well not without tuning. Our mate Olaz has explained very well in a thead here what and why he's done to tune his charging system in order to charge properly and accident free an AGM batteries. I'll try to find it and post the link here. Very helpful explanation.

Be careful what you wish for George, I'm reporting sooner than I'd hoped. So here's my little tale of woe... take a breath...

I bought the new Varta's on 21 January. Why did I buy them? The story is thus.

Last April 2016, my trusted Service informed me that my alternator output was down and recommended replacement. I said OK and a Rough Trax (Spelling?) unit was fitted. Then, in the summer I fitted a volt meter to the truck, because @Chas was kind enough to give me one as a pressie.

How nice, instead of a needle on a dash gauge saying my charge rate is somewhere between zero and the price of fish, I now had a gauge saying 14.6 Volts engine running and everyone advised me that was healthy.

All good thus far. Then Winter came along, as it does, but this one with a bit of a vengeance, and temps dropped like "Lucy Lastic's" drawers to -10C on a constant day/night basis with lows as low as -15C and even less. This was the test for any car battery(s) and mine were no exception.

OK, the charge rate was showing a healthy 14.6 V but as the cold-spell continued the inevitable happened and after switch on (and wait for the heater plugs), the morning 12.6 V dropped to 11.8 V and click-click no 24V switch-over, i.e. it wouldn't start.

Bugger.

What to do? I checked the dockets and the Varta's I had were 4 years old. OK, not bad, not good, the charge rate is good and so it should be (new alternator), so they're just not holding it. Bite the bullet and buy some new ones. So I did, on 21 January 2017 (I'm back to where I started if you're paying attention).

After, I noticed that the charge rate was showing 13.3 V (not the healthy 14.6 V previously). Mmmm, what does this mean? I'm sure I don't know, and those that pretend to know suggested something may be up.

Bugger again.

OK, with 13.3 V, at least they are charging, no worries, keep on driving.

Then last Sunday evening, returning to the city, I noticed the charge rate had dropped to 12.0 V, which even by my dismal math means zero charge. It was dark and an hour and a half journey, and it's cold. So with lights on and heater fan, I drove home. The one and a half hours became 5 hours because of protests in the city and traffic jams and nowhere to bloody park (etc., etc.) and by the time I did park up, it was down to a worrying 11.8 V engine running.

With new batteries and an (ageing) new alternator, I simply had to suspect the alternator. You know how it is, just coming up to 12 month warranty/guarantee expiry, let's get it checked. So first thing this morning, jumped in, and the Volt meter tells me 11.9 V. With that sort of grimace on my face (you know the one) I turned the key, sure it dropped because of the heaters down to 11.6 V, turned again and she started. Yippee, drove the truck straight to service and they tested the alternator.

14.6 V :wtf:

You either have a break in the wiring Sir, or one or both of your batteries are dead. Each battery tested 12 V individually, but when on the truck did not accept or draw anything from the alternator. (forgive my descriptions here because I really don't know zip about 'lectrickery) but that's how it was described to me.

They tested the wiring, and that is OK Sir.

The ultimate test, they put 2 new batteries from stock onto the truck, and the Volt meter sprang back to a healthy 14.6 V. The new Varta's were slung in the back and off I went to Mr. Battery Guy's shop to tell him to replace or refund.

He says, give me 2 days to test them, and I'll call you. OK said me, but I have to insist now on only one day, because the law says that after 48 hours, I can't insist on a refund (Don't ask, laws here are a little suspect if you've been watching the news lately - hence the demonstrations).

That's the short version...

I wait for my phone-call from Mr. Battery Guy. :|
 
I'm speechless Clive!:) I said it a few days ago in this thread ' I don't know what is good anymore'. One thing I've desided is do NOT replace my OEM alternator. Repairs if needed with genuine parts is a yes for me. I'll try to keep my truck in the original state as much as possible. Even the extras I've installed to run a third battery is just a turn of a knob away from going back to factory set.

P.S. I follow very closely the current events in Romania. My wife is in Bucharest 'till Friday.
 
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