Body protection

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Julian,
You may remember the bull bar I have on the front of my 80. I put this on
for 2 reasons. First was that we had a deer problem in one part of Bosnia
where we were rebuilding, and we had almost written off a Felicia from a
deer jumping onto the bonnet.(Other office vehicles all have bull bars). In
the Balkans the deer are huge red deer every bit as big as those in the
Highlands. Its a point if you are driving in wild mountain country that
roads are mostly in valley bottoms. Mountainsides in temperate climates are
mostly covered in forests and the valley bottoms always have a stream or
river flowing through them. Therefore the road is on land higher than the
stream and above the peat bogs that flank the stream, but its also just at
the margin of the forest. So deer come out of the forest to graze the
grassland by the stream and to drink there too. Car comes along, frightens
deer, deer leaps from field onto road towards forest, deer lands on bonnet
and makes a mess of it. Bull bars are very useful in these circumstances.
The bull bar is also useful to anchor a thin wire rope on the outside end
which is then taken up to the front corners of a roof rack or roof bar,
anchored and tensioned with a galvanised bottlescrew. This is then a very
effective deflector for travel through the forest, or green laneing.
Second reason for the bull bar was as protection from Bosnian drivers, most
of whom have had no driving lessons and have acquired a licence either by
bribe, or were given one by the authorities in the war, either to drive in
the army or to take family to safety. The Bosnian road accident figures now
regrettably reflect these inadequacies. Although my greater fear was damage
sustained when parked, especially in my city centre car park when living in
the centre of Sarajevo. I have collected several scrapes on the bar when
tucked-up in bed.
On protecting the rear, I now appreciate that my bumper may be different as
its a military spec 80, it being the troopie version and the bumper acts as
a step for access. But it is the rear chassis cross-member and plenty tough
enough I feel. But I have again collected some permanent white paint marks
whilst parked in downtown Sarajevo. The best addition here has been my NATO
tow hitch, it sticks out a long way and anyone trying to get past too close
to the rear gets caught-up in the hitch. They either go no further, or they
continue and damage themselves on the hitch and don't get too close to the
rest of the rear of the 80. Again, I have some donated permanent white
paint on my black NATO hitch!
You may also remember that I once posted a story about some yobs who went
into my rear end in a crawling traffic jam (drunken football supporters in
Sarajevo for the night when Serbia came over). The sound of the Golf's
plastic grille collapsing round my NATO hitch was a joy to behold. The
hitch then pushed the radiator into the engine block. The Golf naturally
came to a halt but its bumper did not even reach my 80's bumper. The hitch
was all I needed to protect me, it was sticky with anti-freeze though!
I have also found my rear bumper corners useful and strong enough for
pushing others who parked too close, just to get out of the car park you
understand ;o) I think my rear bumper at least is pretty tough already. I
have never seen rear light protectors on an 80, I am sure they are
available, but I think on mine at least, they are high enough to be out of
harm's way.
I hasten to add that all the techniques outlined above have not been used
whenever the 80 has been in UK. (Would never dare try this with the Pajero).
Cheers
Jon
Grand Union Canal
HZJ80 ex UN surplus from Bosnia
 
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Great feedback Jon.
How about some feedback from you others with experience of driving in
Adrica - Dennis, Andy, Renate, Roman, etc are you there?
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Great feedback Jon.
How about some feedback from you others with experience of driving in
Adrica - Dennis, Andy, Renate, Roman, etc are you there?
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Be carefull about the wire for the bull bar. I was talking to a very
experienced African traveller who has a camel trophy 110, he has these wires
fitted and told me that the police in the UK can do you if you put them on
as they are not fitted by the manufacturer. His are of course. The answer to
this is to fit them using turnbuckles and remove them when not needed.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Hi Clive,
That's an odd one, I would have thought that they would have fitted
into the same category as replacement bumpers, roof racks, roof rails,
etc.
Can you find out more info on this?
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Clive,
That's an odd one, I would have thought that they would have fitted
into the same category as replacement bumpers, roof racks, roof rails,
etc.
Can you find out more info on this?
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Clive
If that is the case about the cops stoping you because the wires are not standard fitting, what about all the other bits like bullbars.snorkels,wenches, etc etc.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
Be carefull about the wire for the bull bar. I was talking to a very experienced African traveller who has a camel trophy 110, he has these wires fitted and told me that the police in the UK can do you if you put them on as they are not fitted by the manufacturer.
 
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John
They can stop you for anything dangerous on the bodywork, especially sharp bits sticking out, that might injure people. Retro-fitted bullbars, snorkels, bonnet mascots, etc fall into a grey area where they probably won't stop you, but if you have an accident (especially hitting a pedestrian or bicyclist) and they come off substantially worse because of a fitment you could be in a sticky position.
And you should definitely tell your insurance company about anything you've fitted that might "materially affect" their risk. For example my farrier has a bull-bar on his van, and having that costs him an extra =A320/year.
I totally agree with the ban on those wires: we are doing a lot of work at the moment on "pedestrian impact" legislation - essentially helping manufacturers to make the fronts and bonnets of their cars softer so that people are more likely to survive being hit by a car. Adding a cheese-cutter wire which could cut their head (or arm or leg) off makes a nonsense of this.
On the subject of fittings I agree totally with those saying "keep the weight down", but I would add - perhaps paradoxically - "don't make them too strong either". Better to bend the bull-bar than the chassis! And I have a certain hankering to see a car equipped with all round rope fenders like a boat ... maybe this will be my epic contribution to 21st century car design.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT


| Hi Clive
| If that is the case about the cops stoping you because the wires are not standard fitting, what about all the other bits like bullbars.snorkels,wenches, etc etc.
| John C
| 92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
| Be carefull about the wire for the bull bar. I was talking to a very experienced African traveller who has a camel | trophy 110, he has these wires fitted and told me that the police in the UK can do you if you put them on as they | are not fitted by the manufacturer.
 
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Hi Jeff
Nice one you got me I saw it just when I sent it. Nice to see your on the ball. If Toyota did supply them Im sure they would be like every thing else they sell very expensive.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
wenches???? where can i get one of those..are they toyota issue??
 
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John,
Unfortunately there is not often a wench fitted to my vehicle. I was quoting
a guy that bought his Camel Land Rover from a dealer as LR will not sell
them direct to Joe public for this very reason. They used to sell them
through Nene overland.
Regards, Clive.
On 9/14/05, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff
> Nice one you got me I saw it just when I sent it. Nice to see your on the
> ball. If Toyota did supply them Im sure they would be like every thing else
> they sell very expensive.
> John C
> 92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
>
> wenches???? where can i get one of those..are they toyota issue??
>
>
 
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Julian, when introducing this topic you wrote...
........experience in overlanding I would be interested in your views on
body protection for your TLC.........I guess it's a case of what is the
likelyhood of you being hit by other vehicles or hitting wildlife whilst
travelling across Africa?
SNIP
My response was in that context, i.e. for conditions overseas and in rough
areas with wildlife and often with few traffic laws which are hardly
enforced. My reference to green laneing was to the drover's routes that you
always find criss-crossing mountain ranges, they are not the sole preserve
of the Home Counties. Unfortunately some respondents appear to have read
that I am referring to my everyday driving in UK. Perhaps not everyone read
my final para which included the following..........'I hasten to add that
all the techniques outlined above have not been used whenever the 80 has
been in UK'.
I forgot to add - though more about vehicle security and a tad off-topic -
that I found the best deterrent for radio thieves was not only to not have
one in the dash, but to leave the large gaping hole in the dash where the
previous visitors had removed one. Naturally I terminated the cables in a
choc bar cable terminal for safety, but still left those cables on display.
I think you have seen how it is in my 80.
Cheers
Jon
Grand Union Canal
HZJ80 ex UN surplus from Bosnia
 
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Jeff wrote..
good points there Jon..as i said earlier im going to put a lifter wire from
the bull bar to the roof rack however because of the design of the bonnet
ill have to have an extension of some type on the bull bar so the wire
doesnt foul the bonnet when it is lifted..is that what yu did?
i agree with you about the rear tow hitch, Ive never considered additional
rear protection..again the weight/safety problem is always the consideration
SNIP
We always have wrap-round bull bars on 80's & 75's so hanging the
bottlescrew at the outer end is no problem. It being secured with its hook
on a loop of small link chain. The other end of the cable is looped with a
cable grip through another length of small length chain terminated in a
screw-up type carbine clip for easy removal. The demining teams are the
boys with a real expertise at such devices, especially the 'ambulance'
vehicles, which by necessity really have to get into the rough stuff.
The NATO tow hitch is well worth consideration. I just had it cos it is
standard fitting on my military spec 80. I currently have a swan neck
towball there whilst in UK. But the NATO hitch will be back on when I go
abroad again. When you see the white paint I still have on the end caps of
my bumper you can imagine the force which the tow hitch took by the
miscreant vehicle. So damage could have been done to the more delicate
bumper had it not been protected. I bet the culprit had a hefty repair bill
though !
Cheers
Jon
Grand Union Canal
HZJ80 ex UN surplus from Bosnia
 
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Jon
| Unfortunately some respondents appear to have read
| that I am referring to my everyday driving in UK. Perhaps not
| everyone read my final para which included the following..........
| 'I hasten to add that all the techniques outlined above have not been
| used whenever the 80 has been in UK'.
I did read that. I was simply commenting that such additions have no place where impact on the roads is likely to be with 2-legged rather than 4-legged creatures ("2 legs good, 4 legs bad?") as I'm sure you would agree. In fact the original question posed was how and why the traffic police in the UK would react. So I'm sorry if you felt that I was labelling you as a callous philistine - having read a lot of posts from you over the years I know that you are quite the opposite.
People like myself working in the field of vehicle safety have come to regard the vehicle itself as expendable, its purpose being to protect the occupants in the event of a crash. Latterly attempting to protect pedestrians has also become important, with the consequence that the fronts of new vehicles have become softer.
There is bound to be an increasing conflict between people who want to "armour" their cars (whether against minor bumps in car parks or for overland trips) and legislators who want to improve the likelihood of survival of a pedestrian. My personal view is that anything you put on the back is fair game (I too have heard the happy noise as someone crunched into my towhook), but I would be reluctant to do anything to make the front "harder"; not only because of the possible damage to a pedestrian but also because it could in fact make a conventional crash more severe for the occupants.
Consider this: speed 40 mph, which is 58.7 feet per second, or 17.9 metres per second. Assume you hit another car front quarter to front quarter. Landcruiser from bumper front to firewall (where your feet rest) approximately 1.5 metres. If this distance is crushed up at a constant rate, ie 17.9m/s to zero over 1.5m, you will take approximately 170milliseconds to come to a halt, which is an average deceleration of 105m/s/s, or about 10.5g (10.5 gravities). In real life structural strength varies and you would probably get a peak of about two to three times that, nevertheless you will survive it and, quite possibly, walk away from it.
Now put a thumping great steel beam across the front of the car, so that instead of being able to crush the front chassis member you spread the load right across the front, and therefore transmit a lot of force to that long straight six engine whose back end is under the dash. What will tend to happen is that the engine (which won't deform) is pushed back into the dashboard, which in turn will push back the steering column and the region round your knees. You could actually come off a lot worse, both from higher peak decelerations (less crush distance) and from being clobbered by the steering wheel & dash.
I've quoted this because it is the standard "Offset deformable" NCAP test case, reckoned to be the most realistic for frontal impact. I know, I know, if you hit a mini metro with a Landcruiser you need a paint can and they need a mortuary. But in Africa you are likely to hit something on more equal terms, such as a lorry, or a bus, or a mountain side, or a tree.
The point I'm trying to make is that bigger and stronger might be better in the carpark bump scenario, but not necessarily in the really bad case where you actually want the vehicle to deform ... so that you don't have to. And as others have pointed out that excess weight carries all sorts of other penalties too.
I have no actual experience of overlanding, and I defer to those who have, but from a purely engineering point of view I would have thought that a lightweight bullbar + recovery points on the front would be plenty.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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Jeff wrote...
JEFF SAYS: sory i cant picture this set up at all whats a bottlescrew?
whats a screw up type carbine clip ?and till cant see how the wire doesnt
foul the bonnet..i know i should but i cant!!! or do yu open and close the
clips when you want to open the bonnet??
Jeff a bottlescrew (or turnbuckle) is the sort of threaded gismo that you
may have used to tension a fence wire.
Sometimes in basic form think of 2 strips of steel maybe 5mm X 20mm X 30cm
long. Each end has a nut or captive thread welded between the strips
holding them apart by about 20 mm, one is left hand thread and one right
hand. This central part of the device can also be a skeleton casting with
threads cut into each blank end, or to reflect its name, a piece of tube
swaged to a smaller diameter at each end and then threaded. Into each end
goes a screwed rod - usually about 8mm diameter. One rod commonly has an
eye forged at the free end, the other rod usually has a hook forged at the
free end. Each rod is usually just over half the length of the connecting
frame. So with rods extended outwards you attach each end (the hook and
eye) to the wire, chain, rope or whatever you are trying to tension then
turn the frame in the centre. The threaded rods are wound inwards at an
even pace - remember they are handed in opposite threads - and the tension
is applied. Have you ever used a top link on a farm tractor ? same principle.
Carbine clip. Named after the clips at either end of a rifle (carbine)
sling, but something like a dog lead clip. Bought from an ironmonger or
local DIY store they look like a figure eight in 6 or 8mm round steel,
except that they are not twisted in the centre, they have a small loop at
one end through which you thread the permanently fixed cable or chain. This
then expands opposite to a larger loop maybe 4 times the size of the other
end, which is the quick releasing part. The sides of this loop are usually
straight. The 'normal' type of clip has a spring loaded bridging piece or
jaw set in one straight side and pivoted on a rivet towards the small loop
end. But these can spring open if overloaded and can also open if brush
gets into them. So the screw-up version has a threaded collar that joins
the free end of the bridging piece to the solid steel of the clip. I think
rock climbers have similar but much more sophisticated clips which may be
called something else.
If you rig this cable up it should be outside the extremities of the
vehicle especially if using a wrap-around bull bar. Specially for you I
have tonight walked down to the car park to look at my 80. The bull bar is
about 6 ins outside the line of the bonnet seam and probably 2 ins outside
the face of the front wing as it curves down the side by the indicator
lamp. So this allows the cable to go up to the roof rack or bar completely
outside the arc of an opening bonnet, as the roof rack is also in line with
the edge of the roof. The 75 series - well, all the 70 series models - has
a tapered engine bay and bonnet with wings outside the shape of the engine
bay, so plenty of clearance there. I can't remember how much clearance
there is on the Prado/Colorado. My 4 Runner had the wrap-around bull bar
like the 80 and also had no problems, which also goes for the Hi-Luxe
double cabs which are the real workhorses out in the mountains. We didn't
fit this deflector to the precious RAV4, cos it was such a laughable
'off-road' vehicle that we gave it to the girls in the office to go down to
the hairdressers in !
So once the wires are on and tensioned they remain like it till we don't
need them. But there are no construction and use regs or similar in Bosnia,
so no plod takes you off the road to tell you that they may allegedly be
dangerous to pedestrians. They stop you to fine you for some obscure
reason, usually by showing you a hand held radar gun displaying their
highest speed of the day retained on the digital screen especially for you,
and when you ask for a receipt they double the fine of course. We all have
radar detectors and know damned well that they have not scanned us doing
the correct speed for the area. But there again, the detectors are illegal
and we can't argue the point as we would lose them too - by the time we are
stopped the detector is in the glovebox of course. But I digress.
If you ever see an item named on the list that you can't visualise, then go
to Google pictures and input the item, I am sure it won't let you down with
an illustration.
Cheers
Jon
Grand Union Canal
'92 HZJ80 ex UN surplus from Bosnia
 
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