Can only drive forwards gears AFTER engaging reverse?!

Matt Wright

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Hi guys
Lincomb was great fun and overall all I got home with was a dent in the back where a tree propped me up on punch number 11 (I think).
However.. I have one other problem which I'm hoping someone will have some ideas on..

Saturday : I spent the day driving around but I never felt like I had all my gears. It's been ages since I was off road with the truck and I'm still getting used to it but I really was surprised that I had to break when going down hills?! I stalled a couple times when going up VERY steep sections and having to stop and brake at the top as I had no 1st low - to get punches ;) I also experienced a couple situations where after starting the truck and pulling off, I had to really accelerate before it actually moved forwards.. I thought it was odd but it did engage after a couple seconds.

Sunday : I headed off to the games and in the first one Gavin drove my truck while I did the waffles. I saw that he had the same problem with the pulling off so went to have a chat to the nearest oracle with was Ian. We checked the transmission fluid level and it was just above the low mark so topped it up with half a bottle of fluid and it definitely felt better after that. I then headed off to the woods where I experienced the problem over and over again. It's literally JUST when I start up first time and try to pull off, power is great, gears were working properly (after he fluid top up I think) and I had proper low range etc and no braking going down the steep descents.

So, problem is : I have to engage reverse properly and let it start moving, then quickly engage Drive before driving off. It drives forwards perfectly once engaged. Ultimately it works - but it's definitely something I'd like to fix!

Any ideas.. Thanks in advance..
 

Jon Wildsmith

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When it seems like it takes a lot of revs to get it moving, stop trying to get it moving like that, your clutch plates are slipping and if you do it enough your box will need a rebuild = lots of £ even if it doesn't need one now.

What happens if you select L instead of D when you expect it to play up?

There are a few things you could investigate, like the gear selector position sensor, solenoids in the gearbox one of which might be playing up, gear selector linkage adjustment and others. Was there any event that you think this started happening after / was fine before?

EDIT: stalling on a steep slope instead of idling is a common problem, they just don't like it.

EDIT2: :) was the bottle 1lt? 500ml is not much of a top up if it was on the low mark, maybe you just need more of a top up.
 

Matt Wright

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Thanks John, I don't have the car with me but will be testing out all the gear positions etc. I haven't pressed it hard when trying to pull off - but thanks for that very good tip!

I'll try selecting L first and post the findings.

It was 100% fine before I started playing in the woods. Driving around the farm was nice and easy. It was the woods that needed low range so I think it happened somewhere in there after I realised I didn't have proper gearing whilst driving - it's like I only had one gear which was normal D / Drive? I didn't do anything crazy or where the truck was out of control

I read your other post about the stalling - and felt relieved to know it was normal, tnx again :)
 

Chris

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I have seen quite a few stalling problems on slopes with 80's but I am pleased to say that mine even when pootling the steepest bits never coughed once all weekend. Is that a fueling problem? I don't fancy having to deal with that at the same time as effecting a failed hill start! These big autos do seem to suffer a bit if they are not topped right up with ATF.

Chris
 
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Jon Wildsmith

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Do you know how to check the fluid level properly? i.e. get it hot, cycle through gears, check dipstick with engine still running? I'd check the fluid level again because that's easy to do and fix. As Chris says, they do like their full quota of fluid and will give similar symptoms to yours if fluid is low. Don't overfill though, there is a danger of blowing seals if you do! (a bit over is ok, it's not that exact, just don't put a few bottles in for good measure without checking they're needed ;) )

Checking how it behaves by selecting L instead of D will help give us an idea if it's an electrical or hydraulic fault. The L & R positions on the box are not electronicly controlled so if it behaves in L it would suggest an electrical fault, either with the sensor that tells the ECU which gear you have selected, or with the solenoids that the ECU controls to select the gears. Neither need the box out to investigate / fix although getting at the solenoids does involve taking the oil pan off and having a bit of an ATF shower :lol:

There are also a couple of wiring loom connectors just above the starter motor that the gearbox signals pass through that can give trouble. You haven't had your starter worked on recently have you?
 

Matt Wright

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Thanks again, all makes sense and I'll try do Rhodes tests tomorrow even.
I now know how to check the fluid level correctly after Ian showed me on Sunday :thumbup: will check it again tomorrow as part of the feedback
I haven't had any work done (apart from mechanical things like beb's and axle rebuilds)
Will report back tomorrow night ;)
 

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I rescently did a complete ATF flush & change in our Volvo V70 as they really start to suffer with gear change issues around 100000 miles due to dirty/burnt oil :) After completion I just topped up the ATF on the dip stick cold & carried on using as normall but the gear changes had become far worse after the new fluid was in :think: It turned out that the fluid level on the dip stick was to be read when the oil was @ 80 degrees (HOT) & it had too much oil in :!: So I dropped some out & then ran around for a while with to little oil in (about 250ml) & the gear change was clunky & less than smooth :roll: It's surprised me how much of a difference just a little oil made to the performance of the gearbox :shock: :) In the end I bought a digital thermometer from off the bay & spent some time getting it bang on @ the exact temperature (according to my cheap digital thermometer) :D The other thing I had done was a diagnostic appraisal by Volvo that showed there was a program upgrade for the gearbox & engine management systems that was specific to smoother changes & better fuel economy :thumbup: Maybe you have something along these lines going on :think:
 

Matt Wright

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Jon Wildsmith said:
Neither need the box out to investigate / fix although getting at the solenoids does involve taking the oil pan off and having a bit of an ATF shower :lol:

Bas as the BEB black oil shower? If not - then I look forward to it!! :?
 

Jon Wildsmith

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Matt Wright said:
Bas as the BEB black oil shower? If not - then I look forward to it!! :?
Whenever you think you have all the oil drained it always has a bit more in reserve to drip on you :lol: but no it's not too bad unless you start getting into removing the valve body then it gets pretty messy but hopefully you're not going there.
 

Andy Harvey

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sae70 said:
I rescently did a complete ATF flush & change in our Volvo V70 as they really start to suffer with gear change issues around 100000 miles due to dirty/burnt oil :) After completion I just topped up the ATF on the dip stick cold & carried on using as normall but the gear changes had become far worse after the new fluid was in :think: It turned out that the fluid level on the dip stick was to be read when the oil was @ 80 degrees (HOT) & it had too much oil in :!: So I dropped some out & then ran around for a while with to little oil in (about 250ml) & the gear change was clunky & less than smooth :roll: It's surprised me how much of a difference just a little oil made to the performance of the gearbox :shock: :) In the end I bought a digital thermometer from off the bay & spent some time getting it bang on @ the exact temperature (according to my cheap digital thermometer) :D The other thing I had done was a diagnostic appraisal by Volvo that showed there was a program upgrade for the gearbox & engine management systems that was specific to smoother changes & better fuel economy :thumbup: Maybe you have something along these lines going on :think:

Where you really notice the difference is on slush boxes that are fully hydraulic - i.e. no electronic control. I had a Camaro a few years back with a 283ci V8 and a Turbo 350 box. Had a leak on the torque converter for a while and used to just top it up when the gears started playing up and then eventually did the job proper and took out the box and rebuilt it (piece of piss by the way). You should have seen the state of the clutches in that thing, they were pretty toasted even though I had always topped it up when I noticed the gears not changing properly. What made me do the proper job was one morning when I went out and there was absolutely no transmission oil in the box as it was all over the road (and that was hard to clean up too).

I always cchk my trans fluid level regularly, you can really screw up the internals even before you know that there is something wrong because auto boxes are quite kind to the driver, soak up a lot of abuse and also mask a lot of problems because the TC covers up lots of problems.
 

Matt Wright

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Hi guys
Thanks a lot for the help so far. I fetched the truck after work, started her up, let the engine run for about 40seconds and them drove off. So, it didn't happen this evening!?
I only got to drive home down the hill sonwill check again tomorrow and report back

One other thing I noticed is that she revs normally when pulling off but there's a period if higher revs before the turbo kicks in where there's a sort of clanging metal sound?! If I keep accelerating smoothly through this till the turbo kicks in it's manageable but I'm sure if I kept it at a constant speed before the turbo engages I could keep the sound up / it doing whatever is "wrong"..

Does that ring any bells or sound related? Apologies for the charades!
Matt
 

Jon Wildsmith

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Hard to know if your funny sound is related to your gearbox problems :( Can you record the noise and stick it on the net? Is it a new sound that coincides with the appearance of your gearbox problem? Any vibrations you can feel that match the sound?
 

Matt Wright

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That's a great idea John (I've almost done that a couple times out of desperation now!). It's quite easy to replicate so will do that tomorrow

The pulling off problem happened a couple times again today but I'm beginning to think it might be 2 different things happening:
1) The pull off gearbox problem and
2) The noise might be something rattling in my exhaust - and maybe the sound changes depending on the rev count. It changes as the turbo kicks in so perhaps it's something to do with this.

Meeting up with Andrew P tomorrow so will have a quick catch up and send on the new set of useful info.. Chat tomorrow :)
 

Matt Wright

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Ok, so this seems to be going nowhere fast as I can only driver the truck on weekends. I'm heading down to the new forest this weekend so will stop and start as many times as possible to see how the gearbox goes. Hold thumbs the new freezing temperatures have fixed it?!
Got plenty to still do so hopefully one less thing to worry about
The noise (I am now 99% sure) is coming from the front exhaust box. Problem in troubleshooting it is that you have to be going fast to hear it!
Will try post something useful on Sunday

Put the new "radiator a'la Chris" in this weekend and all is good with it. No leaks or broken side indicators :lol: etc
Thanks for your help Andrew :)
 

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Matt Wright said:
No leaks or broken side indicators
Oh thats just innexcusable (sp.) - good luck in the dessert (sp. :p ) chap
 

Matt Wright

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Ok, this seems to be going a bit cold as I never get to drive the truck long enough to gather any evidence. Update is :

I still have the intermittent issue where the truck doesn't go forward when I start up and engage Drive first up. It still requires Reverse and then she goes..
There are odd "rattling noises" coming from he auto box gear shifter on the centre console - they're not loud but I could hear them occasionally (could be nothing). I tried to record it but of course it stopped abruptly when I started getting ready!
The "exhaust noise" / rattling has gone away which is good - must have been a Lincomb battle scar..

So I will be starting with an ATF flush and see how it goes from there. It looks like I may not get the truck in 101% tip top shape before at this rate - never end of things to do (and it doesn't help that someone posts about some new gizmo that's essential on a daily basis :))..
 

Jon Wildsmith

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The gear shifter is a remote linkage bolted to the transmission tunnel with just a connecting rod to a lever on the side of the gearbox Matt so that making a noise doesn't indicate a gearbox problem, though it might indicate there's a nut loose in the car :mrgreen:
 

Matt Wright

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:? :lol: :oops: guess I'll have to go find that bolt then :lol:

Lemme get the ATF changed out, correct amount put in measured when the correct temp and then hopefully she starts purring again..
Out of interest, if something does deteriorate wrt the gearbox, is that something critical that'll stop you in yr tracks / will I potentially be stuck with 1 gear? I'd like to avoid this issue!

Btw, one thing I did notice is that it seems to rev for longer before changing up to the highest gear - especially when going on to the motorway. I have to actually rev a little extra and then throttle back for it to figure it out and change gears up, like it's registering the required gear incorrectly?
Ok, I've caused enuf damage on this forum for one night! Will report back next week..
 

Chris

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Going for ATF in bulk makes it cheaper. I bought 25 L in one go. Little bottles are damaging to the wallet. I went with JWs recommendations and did a proper drain and refill three times. It ran clear at that point. But until then it was still filthy even though I got about 6 L per drain out of there.


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