cold start

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OK guys here is something for you
Today I asked the mechanic at my second job what can be the reason when the car is cold(in the morning) it won't pull on for some seconds but after this it will go well-just not enough power or diesel or who knows what....and the guy answered at once:
this is the coldstart element on the pump and drove his way home. I assume he meant the injection pump but don't know for sure.
Is that the reason and could it be repaired.
and something more: the Wiseman at Toyota believes that the warm up plugs don't warm up enough before I start the car and that's the reason-as long as I remember someone of you mentioned that they go for 1|2 of the second and then the car is ready to start-am I wrong?
waiting unpationed for answer as well for answer from the chief Toyota why they did let me down..........the car should've been at the workshop at Tuesday and they never call me to tell me if I can rent a car from them :-(((((((
cheers
Lubo
'96 HDJ80 1T-FT(?) 24valves
242000km on the clock
 
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Lubo,
The car is ready to start as soon as it can start. The cold start
plugs, in mine, are non existant. There is a heater matrix in the
manifold that really takes some current. Yours should be the same.
This heater stays on for some time after the engine has started to
assist the running when cold. I once read in a Toyota handbook,
colorado, 'don't let the car stand to warm up with the engine on
tickover, as soon as it is running evenly pull away'. I rarely leave
mine more that 1 secong before I start it, then only a few more for
the oil to get round.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Lubo,
The cold start advance mechanism advances the pump timing and boosts
idle revs for better start from cold. You know it works when the revs
at cold start are higher than nomal (ca 1200 rpm). As the coolant gets
warmer, the cold start decreases the revs. It is a module and is
normally replaced, not repaired.
Re heater plugs - you know they don't work if the engine can't be
started. If it can, why bother? If none of them works - it's the
heater timer/relay. If only some do - it's the element in the plug.
You can check the timer/relay by measuring voltage on the common rail.
Each plug must be removed for testing.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 11/29/06, Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Lubo,
Another thought. If your pre-heater is working you can see it on
the volt meter, it stays low for a couple of minuets, then gets a bit
higher, then goes right up. This is also noticeable with the
headlights on.
Regards.
On 11/29/06, Clive Marks <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Lubo

As Clive says, we don't have glow plugs on the 24 valve engine (there
isn't enough room in the cylinder head), just that confounded glow
screen in the air intake.

The voltmeter on the dash should be low for a minute or two after a cold
start, then suddenly jump up and the lights get brighter when the glow
screen cuts out. If it doesn't do this then your glow screen is not
working, although I have to say that I don't think it will make much
difference as I believe they added it more for emissions than for
starting.

Another possibility is the cold start timing advance on the injector
pump, as your mechanic says, which will make it hard to start and
lacking in power until it warms up a bit.

Yet another possibility is a little bit of air creeping into the fuel
line, usually around the fuel filter seal, which can make it reluctant
to start as the air compresses in the pump stopping fuel from being
injected. Make sure your fuel filter is screwed on good and tight, and
if pumping it (by the button on top of the fuel filter) improves
starting this may be the cause.

Christopher Bell
OK guys here is something for you
Today I asked the mechanic at my second job what can be the
reason when the car is cold(in the morning) it won't pull on for some
seconds but after this it will go well-just not enough power or diesel
or who knows what....and the guy answered at once:
this is the coldstart element on the pump and drove his way
home. I assume he meant the injection pump but don't know for sure.
Is that the reason and could it be repaired.
and something more: the Wiseman at Toyota believes that the warm
up plugs don't warm up enough before I start the car and that's the
reason-as long as I remember someone of you mentioned that they go for
1|2 of the second and then the car is ready to start-am I wrong?
waiting unpationed for answer as well for answer from the chief
Toyota why they did let me down..........the car should've been at the
workshop at Tuesday and they never call me to tell me if I can rent a
car from them :-(((((((
cheers
Lubo
'96 HDJ80 1T-FT(?) 24valves
242000km on the clock
____________________________________________________________
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Hi Lubo
I looked at your question a few times and think you are asking why your cruiser is slow to move on after starting (kind of sluggush) and then it will move a little better but not great.
I presume it runs well when it is warmed up and if so I think this slow running at start up is to do with the engine having to get warm and then working well at normal temp.
Mine is good to start so far even with the cold start thing removed from the pump, but it does take time to heat up and run normally then.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Clive
that is correct-everything you write is the same with mine but the problem
is with the start driving after I've started the car-it won't pull away ,it
sort of 'drowning' ant the turtle won't go up more than 1200 and even one
morning the engine stop. after that it start at once and no problem at all.
It looks more what Roman says about some 'revs'-mine is never 1200-it always
stays at 800 cold or warm and maybe is that 'cold start advance
mechanism'mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!
I just didn't know there is something like that!
I should ask the Wiseman at Toyota but I'm afraid he won't know that either
because all they are doing on my car is just 'guessing' they don't have any
diagnostic software etc......
Clive, Roman-thanks!!!
cheers
Lubo
don't know why but still loving my car.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clive Marks" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] cold start
 
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Chris
you see-the guy that sits behind the desk in Toyota doesn't know that we
don't have glow plugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and one of the reasons they changed the alternator was that the voltmeter
did not got up at once!!!!!!!!!!
now maybe you begin to understand why I seem to be frustrated when I have to
visit TOYOTA and even there
they ask me' the guys on ELCO said'' -think about it!!!!!!But it makes me
happy that I communicate with normal people here :))))))))))))
the point here is that the car starts ' very normal' but lack of power at
the beginning when you put your leg on the gas pedal and expect to pull away
, but instead of it goes dead and once it did it too.and what I have noticed
is it behave like that when it's foggy or rainy-just like old gasoline
engine with carburettor when it has more gasoline than air in it.
so the question is still there: is there any cold start element or mechanism
or whatever on the pump that should open more,when is cold?
cheers
Lubo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Bell" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] cold start
Lubo
As Clive says, we don't have glow plugs on the 24 valve engine (there
isn't enough room in the cylinder head), just that confounded glow
screen in the air intake.
The voltmeter on the dash should be low for a minute or two after a cold
start, then suddenly jump up and the lights get brighter when the glow
screen cuts out. If it doesn't do this then your glow screen is not
working, although I have to say that I don't think it will make much
difference as I believe they added it more for emissions than for
starting.
Another possibility is the cold start timing advance on the injector
pump, as your mechanic says, which will make it hard to start and
lacking in power until it warms up a bit.
Yet another possibility is a little bit of air creeping into the fuel
line, usually around the fuel filter seal, which can make it reluctant
to start as the air compresses in the pump stopping fuel from being
injected. Make sure your fuel filter is screwed on good and tight, and
if pumping it (by the button on top of the fuel filter) improves
starting this may be the cause.
Christopher Bell
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi John
no, it is not slow to move at the beginning-it is only for some moments,let say some seconds while it try 'swallowing the problem and then is running very happy indeed.But it looks like something was removed from your pump and maybe that is exactly what I heard today from the mechanic. I read about your problems and now I remember you've mentioned it and there was some excuse form the guy to do it but that I don't remember.
Would you mind refreshing my memory?
cheers
Lubo
----- Original Message -----
From: John Byrne
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] cold start
Hi Lubo
I looked at your question a few times and think you are asking why your cruiser is slow to move on after starting (kind of sluggush) and then it will move a little better but not great.
I presume it runs well when it is warmed up and if so I think this slow running at start up is to do with the engine having to get warm and then working well at normal temp.
Mine is good to start so far even with the cold start thing removed from the pump, but it does take time to heat up and run normally then.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
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Hi Lubo
I also hate the so called guys who should know what they are doing. Recently I left the cruiser in to get the rear wheel bearings replaced and instead they did the front ones instead. They said the front bearings were different to the rear and the bearings that i had given them would only fit the front. I knew I was right and so they did the rear ones for free once they found out.
Ok sorry as usual I cant even get the problem right never mind the solution. The bit that gave me the problem was the cold start wax pellet thingy so they removed it. But this caused the cruiser to stop working and come to a stop while driving. Since then I have had it returned to them because of engine vibration problems due to improper fuel supple in the pump and been told it was ok. Then had it adjusted again and still I have the vibrations. So now I have to go to them a third time when i get the chance and get them to adjust it again.
When i collected the cruiser from them they gave it back to me without coolant in it. It over heated a little before I saw the temp gauge.
But funny thing is since it did overheat that time I seem to be using less oil in the engine. So maybe the heat nearly cooked the engine but didn't but helped the rings to settle down so in the process im using less oil. Well thats what i think but I will have to do a proper study/usage of oil after the next oil change.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hi John
I've read a lot the troubles you've been and it is not so easy living with those but I also was wondering who repair the Cruiser for you.If it is not qualified mechanic you might expect 'unpredictable troublles' . But I'm mad at Toyota here witch seems like they are guessing what is wrong with my car and the fact they changed an alternator witch shouldn't ve been replaced at the first place can tell you how good they are. and that is pity:you have Toyota LC and because you want the things to be done properly you choose to go to'
TOYOTA and they just f##k you up.and the labour hour cost 1100NOK-almost 100=A3
cheers
Lubo
----- Original Message -----
From: John Byrne
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] cold start
Hi Lubo
I also hate the so called guys who should know what they are doing. Recently I left the cruiser in to get the rear wheel bearings replaced and instead they did the front ones instead. They said the front bearings were different to the rear and the bearings that i had given them would only fit the front. I knew I was right and so they did the rear ones for free once they found out.
Ok sorry as usual I cant even get the problem right never mind the solution. The bit that gave me the problem was the cold start wax pellet thingy so they removed it. But this caused the cruiser to stop working and come to a stop while driving. Since then I have had it returned to them because of engine vibration problems due to improper fuel supple in the pump and been told it was ok. Then had it adjusted again and still I have the vibrations. So now I have to go to them a third time when i get the chance and get them to adjust it again.
When i collected the cruiser from them they gave it back to me without coolant in it. It over heated a little before I saw the temp gauge.
But funny thing is since it did overheat that time I seem to be using less oil in the engine. So maybe the heat nearly cooked the engine but didn't but helped the rings to settle down so in the process im using less oil. Well thats what i think but I will have to do a proper study/usage of oil after the next oil change.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
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Hi Lubo
What you will find as I have to my cost is that most Toyota garages and indeed other mechanical oulets employ part fitters.
That is to say it is easier for them to replace a part than to think of how to fix it. Most places seem to be losing the ability to diagnose a problem before it gets worse or to even understand what is wrong.
Most cars etc now are just plugged into a computer and the so called mechanic is given the answers.
I try to use Toyota because they are overall good compared to others especially with regards to the cruiser. They do make mistakes every now and again but some of this I think is due to there only being a few of the cruisers here and even less given into Toyota to do work on them.
Also most people now are more interested in buying new or nearly cars not trying to keep aging cruisers going for ever as we try to achieve.
I tried to use various mechanics around but found them unreliable and in one case he wanted me to leave the cruiser in to him with no idea of the time it would take and what he would charge me, so I declined.
The injector pump guys are one of the only ones around within a large distance and most garages use them including Toyota.
I just seem to attract the gobshits I think.
Geese your =A3100 per hour is very steep for Toyota service, you must all be earning hugh wages.
Over here it is 60 euro per hour and I think thats high.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hi John
that is half true-not all of us earn high wages,so to say you go to Toyota to repair something is very expensive for us -the common guys.But the reason I go there is
I expect a quality for the value and sometimes in a long term you might benefit from it if of course they do the job they are supposed to do well.
and one more thing-you can go back to them and complain like I did for the alternator and they accept the email from Gareth(if I'm right and remember)and refund my money back.and one last thing: if they work something on the car they write 0.6 of the hour or 3/4 of the hour but not 1 or 2 hours labour
Ok-enough for now-take good care
cheers
Lubo
From: John Byrne
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] cold start
Geese your =A3100 per hour is very steep for Toyota service, you must all be earning hugh wages.
Over here it is 60 euro per hour and I think thats high.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/556 - Release Date: 11/28/2006 3:22 PM
 
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Lubo,
If you are complaining about Toyota dealers, it means you've never had
a Landrover :)
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 11/30/06, Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Roman
Toyota is number 1 in Norway on the market and as such man expect to get
first class service!
LandRover is not so popular here though you can see some of them rolling
around...
cheers
Lubo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] cold start
 
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Lubo,
That is the case in most of the world. It is only missplaced
patriotism that puts LR above most other 4x4's. That and a desire to
work on vehicles.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Hi Clive
you make me laugh-it is good for the health :))))))))
I miss Reno Lamb-he used to write some funny stuff.....
otherwise I'm optimistic about my car-I only have to change the gearbox and
the clutch,front and back differential,the rear propshaft,the transfer case
and to adjust the valve clearance,change the BEBs if necessary and fit the
intercooler-have I missed something? probably
But the cruisers are keep on goinggggggggggggggggggggggg
cheers
Lubo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clive Marks" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] cold start
 
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Hi Clive,
I think the figures are that Toyota have outsold LR by about 20 times
worldwide.
LR is only really clinging abroad in countries that used to be in the
British Empire due to historical alegiencies.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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