Further engine woes!!

G

Guest

Guest
I think I=92m joining the John Byrne clan!

The shop has put my engine back together and they=92ve just phoned me to say
that as soon as they start it up the cooling system pressurises and blows
all the coolant out of the rad filler.

The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does anyone
have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a cracked
block :-( Any other suggestions???

Going to rub my head with a cheese grater now.

Fancy joining me for some tranquilisers JB??

Pete
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G

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Pete let me have the car for spares and you get your self a better one .
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 13:59
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
I think I'm joining the John Byrne clan!
The shop has put my engine back together and they've just phoned me to
say that as soon as they start it up the cooling system pressurises and
blows all the coolant out of the rad filler.
The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does
anyone have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a
cracked block :-( Any other suggestions???
Going to rub my head with a cheese grater now.
Fancy joining me for some tranquilisers JB??
Pete
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G

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Very funny Ray=85.. but not helpful :)

Pete

_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Ray Dadd
Sent: 07 June 2007 13:05
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

Pete let me have the car for spares and you get your self a better one .

-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 13:59
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

I think I=92m joining the John Byrne clan!

The shop has put my engine back together and they=92ve just phoned me to say
that as soon as they start it up the cooling system pressurises and blows
all the coolant out of the rad filler.

The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does anyone
have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a cracked
block :-( Any other suggestions???

Going to rub my head with a cheese grater now.

Fancy joining me for some tranquilisers JB??

Pete
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14:03
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G

Guest

Guest
You need a compression test, pity they didn=92t do that first. On a petrol
you can do a leakdown =96 don=92t know if that is possible on a diesel. How /
where was the gasket blown =96 seems a little odd that the coolant is being
pressurised now if it wasn=92t before.

Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76

The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does anyone
have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a cracked
block L Any other suggestions???

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G

Guest

Guest
Joking a side Pete
Check the crack case breather system. I had a Granada years ago with a
fault like that and it was caused through blockage in the breathing
system. Or I may have just
Been feed a load of you know what.
Yours
Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 07 June 2007 14:13
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
You need a compression test, pity they didn't do that first. On a
petrol you can do a leakdown - don't know if that is possible on a
diesel. How / where was the gasket blown - seems a little odd that the
coolant is being pressurised now if it wasn't before.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does
anyone have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a
cracked block :-( Any other suggestions???
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Hi Malcolm

To be fair I booked it in to have the head gasket changed and I didn=92t ask
them to do any pressure testing.

It is the FZJ (petrol) engine.

Previously it was leaking water from the head =96 block join between cylinders
5 and 6. When the shop took the head off they confirmed that the head gasket
had indeed blown.

It certainly wasn=92t pressurising the coolant at all before and like you I
find this a little strange. I=92ve just asked the shop about this and their
answer is that the engine released the pressure build-up by blowing the head
gasket. I would have thought that the rad cap, or a hose would have gone way
before there was enough pressure to blow a head gasket????

Pete

_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 07 June 2007 13:13
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

You need a compression test, pity they didn=92t do that first. On a petrol
you can do a leakdown =96 don=92t know if that is possible on a diesel. How /
where was the gasket blown =96 seems a little odd that the coolant is being
pressurised now if it wasn=92t before.

Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76

The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does anyone
have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a cracked
block :-( Any other suggestions???

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Pete

It's clutching at straws, but when my VW camper had to have a new head
(for the same reasons) the first one they put on cracked. I presume it
was due to the stresses caused by torquing up the head bolts, but it got
a second new head as a consequence. Sort of Zaphod Beeblebrox
engineering ...

I'd suggest compression testing each cylinder, which is easy to do
without dismantling anything (just unscrew spark plug, screw in gauge
and crank engine), which should give an indication of where the problem
lies and then taking the head off again to have a look.

But it all sounds pretty miserable for you - you have my sympathy.

Christopher Bell

________________________________
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 13:22
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

Hi Malcolm

To be fair I booked it in to have the head gasket changed and I didn't
ask them to do any pressure testing.

It is the FZJ (petrol) engine.

Previously it was leaking water from the head - block join between
cylinders 5 and 6. When the shop took the head off they confirmed that
the head gasket had indeed blown.

It certainly wasn't pressurising the coolant at all before and like you
I find this a little strange. I've just asked the shop about this and
their answer is that the engine released the pressure build-up by
blowing the head gasket. I would have thought that the rad cap, or a
hose would have gone way before there was enough pressure to blow a head
gasket????

Pete
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____________________________________________________________
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systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Rad cap is only say 14 psi so I would agree, other thing is leak into the
coolant system will tend to =93build up=94 in pressure. By leaking water from
the head, do you mean the coolant was leaking out and dribbling down the
side of the block?

Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76

From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 14:22
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

Previously it was leaking water from the head =96 block join between cylinders
5 and 6. When the shop took the head off they confirmed that the head gasket
had indeed blown.

It certainly wasn=92t pressurising the coolant at all before and like you I
find this a little strange. I=92ve just asked the shop about this and their
answer is that the engine released the pressure build-up by blowing the head
gasket. I would have thought that the rad cap, or a hose would have gone way
before there was enough pressure to blow a head gasket????
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14:03
 
G

Guest

Guest
I hope (in a way) someone can enlighten me but I cannot get my head (excuse
the pun) around why the coolant should now be erupting from the rad when it
wasn=92t doing so before.

I find it very hard to believe that there is enough pressure, even with a
cracked block, to blow out the head gasket before something less
substantial, like a radiator hose went and acted like a safety valve. In
fact the more I think about it the whole scenario doesn=92t make sense to me,
that doesn=92t mean it=92s not so, just that I don=92t understand it maybe.

1. Prior to the head gasket going there was absolutely no indication to
me of anything untoward. Certainly no frothy coolant, no exhaust steam, etc.
2. The day before I discovered the problem I noticed a =93hot=94 smell from
the engine bay, like spilt coolant but I was in a hurry and didn=92t give it
any more thought.
3. I went to get in the truck the next morning and noticed a small
puddle under the engine. I investigated and found evidence of a water leak
from the block =96 head joint between cylinders 5 and 6
4. There was no evidence of any oil in the coolant or vice versa
5. There did not appear to be any sort of =93pressurised leak=94 by which I
mean that when I ran the engine to check the actual leakage there was simply
a steady drip, drip; it certainly didn=92t look to be pouring out under any
sort of pressure and neither was the coolant frothing.
6. When I left the truck standing the coolant continued to slowly drip
from the leaky area to the extent that a week or so later I had to put about
two litres in to bring it back to cover the radiator core

So given that there was no indication anywhere of pressurisation before the
new head gasket was fitted why should there be such a violent change now??

Why wouldn=92t a hose or something have blown before the head gasket if
pressurisation was the problem??

Doesn=92t seem logical to me, or am I missing something obvious???

Pete

_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 12:59
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

I think I=92m joining the John Byrne clan!

The shop has put my engine back together and they=92ve just phoned me to say
that as soon as they start it up the cooling system pressurises and blows
all the coolant out of the rad filler.

The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does anyone
have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a cracked
block :-( Any other suggestions???

Going to rub my head with a cheese grater now.

Fancy joining me for some tranquilisers JB??

Pete
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14:03
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G

Guest

Guest
Yes
See my previous post
Pete
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 07 June 2007 13:45
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
By leaking water from the head, do you mean the coolant was leaking out and
dribbling down the side of the block?
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G

Guest

Guest
The short answer Jon is that they came recommended but I have no personal
experience of them to go by.
In what way could a bad rebuild cause this issue? Presumably putting the
gasket on upside down or something like that?
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Jon Wildsmith
Sent: 07 June 2007 14:15
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
How much do you trust the abilities of the guys that have done the job? My
first thought from your first post was they didn't fit the gasket
correctly.
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Peter,
Just wondering, why did they ring you back to advise about a problem
that wasn't of your own making? If they refitted the head without
testing it for cracks, they took a calculated risk. Did they advise
you it's a reasonable precaution, just like skimming it by one thou to
make sure it sits flat on all corners?
A professional outfit would first investigate why something went
wrong, then fix it and only afterwards ring the customer, if at all.
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Roman, the head was crack tested and skimmed.
Other than that I'm not entirely clear what your question is; they rang me
to say that after they put it all back together and fired it up the coolant
became pressurised and dumped itself out of the rad. They're saying "it must
be a cracked block"...???
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Roman
Sent: 07 June 2007 15:31
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
Peter,
Just wondering, why did they ring you back to advise about a problem
that wasn't of your own making? If they refitted the head without
testing it for cracks, they took a calculated risk. Did they advise
you it's a reasonable precaution, just like skimming it by one thou to
make sure it sits flat on all corners?
A professional outfit would first investigate why something went
wrong, then fix it and only afterwards ring the customer, if at all.
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
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14:03
 
G

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So odds are against a cracked block? (That is my take on it anyway)
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
Wrong gasket, faulty gasket, damaged in fitting gasket, head bolts not
torqued down properly or not replaced, block mating surface not cleaned up
properly... I don't have a definitive answer but there are lots of ways to
mess up a head job although it's all quite streight forward.
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I dunno, I hope so but what do I know!
Trouble is how do I now go about challenging the shop? I have nothing to
point to except "it wasn't doing that before" which seems a logical argument
to me but they will repeat I'm sure that "the head gasket must have blown
because of the pressure" which I think is arrant nonsense but I have nothing
with which to disprove it.
This is why I HATE garages doing anything; there's no way to prove they
haven't cocked things up.
I'm going to see them tomorrow morning so I need to think of what to say to
them.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 07 June 2007 16:03
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
So odds are against a cracked block? (That is my take on it anyway)
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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G

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Guest
Totally stupid question I=92m sure but there=92s no way they could have fitted a
diesel gasket=85 is there?? Surely the block size / shape / bolt patterns are
different between the 4.2D and 4.5 petrol?

Just a thought.

Pete

_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 12:59
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!

I think I=92m joining the John Byrne clan!

The shop has put my engine back together and they=92ve just phoned me to say
that as soon as they start it up the cooling system pressurises and blows
all the coolant out of the rad filler.

The head has been crack tested and it has a new head gasket so does anyone
have any ideas as to why this might be happening? My thought is a cracked
block :-( Any other suggestions???

Going to rub my head with a cheese grater now.

Fancy joining me for some tranquilisers JB??

Pete
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14:03
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14:03
 
G

Guest

Guest
Does the engine run Peter?, if it doesn't just say to them if they imply you
broke it, how the hell do you think I drove it here in the first place!
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
 
G

Guest

Guest
Pete
Get them to take the head off and have it checked elsewhere first then
go back to them.
They keep the car you get the head. A reasonable garage would let you
take the head away if they have nothing to hide
Plus the old trading standards threat does make people think if you have
too
But the biggest problem is that they have your car full stop .which the
less un-honourable garages use to there advantage
Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 07 June 2007 17:22
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
I dunno, I hope so but what do I know!
Trouble is how do I now go about challenging the shop? I have nothing to
point to except "it wasn't doing that before" which seems a logical
argument
to me but they will repeat I'm sure that "the head gasket must have
blown
because of the pressure" which I think is arrant nonsense but I have
nothing
with which to disprove it.
This is why I HATE garages doing anything; there's no way to prove they
haven't cocked things up.
I'm going to see them tomorrow morning so I need to think of what to say
to
them.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 07 June 2007 16:03
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
So odds are against a cracked block? (That is my take on it anyway)
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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14:03
 
G

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Guest
I didn't drive it there Chas, they collected it on a flatbed. But they did
drive it onto the flatbed so they knew it ran then.
Also I believe they're saying it does run, it's just that the coolant spews
out of the rad when it does run.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Chas
Sent: 07 June 2007 16:32
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
Does the engine run Peter?, if it doesn't just say to them if they imply you
broke it, how the hell do you think I drove it here in the first place!
TTFN
Chas
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G

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Yes, fine but ATEOTD what can I hope to prove by that? I have no reason to
believe that the head has not been properly tested and skimmed already. I
think that any problem must reside elsewhere, not with the head. I don't
know this for certain of course, it *could* be the head I just think it
probably isn't.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Ray Dadd
Sent: 07 June 2007 16:33
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Further engine woes!!
Pete
Get them to take the head off and have it checked elsewhere first then
go back to them.
They keep the car you get the head. A reasonable garage would let you
take the head away if they have nothing to hide
Plus the old trading standards threat does make people think if you have
too
But the biggest problem is that they have your car full stop .which the
less un-honourable garages use to there advantage
Ray
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14:03
 
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