Glow plug relay? No Cold start.

[martin]

Hello
Just a quick one, so I think I have a dead Glow plug relay. this is the simtions.

Land cruiser 70 series.
Jump in car, turn key and wait for glow light to go out, hear the relay under passanger side wheel arch click, light goes out, turn key and nothing. Tried the normal glowing the plugs 4 or 5 times but still no joy. Tested if there is any power from the top of the plug with a test light wile the Mrs was on the Key and nothing.
I have started it This morning running a small jump wire diect from the battery to top of glow plugs and it started.

Would i be right in saying that there is 2 relay? dose any one know where the 2nd is?
Cheers Martin

 

[karl webster]

The second martin is on the drivers inner wing if i remember right. A black smallish relay around 3inchesx 2x 3.

Actlly thts voltge regulator i think. Starter relay in inner wing t the rear.

 

[martin]

The second martin is on the drivers inner wing if i remember right. A black smallish relay around 3inchesx 2x 3.

Actlly thts voltge regulator i think. Starter relay in inner wing t the rear.

I can see one that's in the pasangers side arch, but nothing much in the drivers side. If i cant get this sorted i can see I'm going to have put a button on.

 

[Trevor]

From memory Martin, you could hear a relay from front right of the dash. If you look up underneath the steering wheel there are some relays in that area too.

 

[martin]

From memory Martin, you could hear a relay from front right of the dash. If you look up underneath the steering wheel there are some relays in that area too.

Right ok cool thanks Trevor, il have a look when i get home, i have a new set of Plugs to go in as well as even with the jump wire it was a little unhappy to wake up this morning.

 

[Ben]

I think the other relay is above the glove box.

If you unbolt the glove box (about 6 philips screws), then pull the box out and look up you will see it.

 

[martin]

Ok 10 points to Ben again as your very right there it is. Thanks Ben. Hears a picture. Now the question is. How do i know for sure weather this is the part at fault and has any one got one if it is at fault.

 

[Ben]

Thanks Martin. 10 points to MR T i say!

A lot of manufactures don't label relay's, had it not been labelled I wouldn't have known where it was.

Thinking about this problem I dont think its a relay fault.

I recently found some wires under the bonnet and found that the one needed earthing. Once I earthed it I found the pre heat circuit was working properly.

It hadn't been working for about a year and I had crudely wired a switch and a live wire up to the glow plugs. This resulted in the engine running poorly on start up as I was never sure how long to leave the glow plugs switched on for, and as I was scared of burning something out I always switched them off too early.

Your 70 isnt running its original engine, its got a later model engine fitted. I suspect you need to check the wiring in the engine bay as it is a very similar to problem to the one I had.

If you follow the wiring loom forward from the Gearbox, there should be an earth wire coming off the loom. I think I bolted mine behind the fuel filter housing.

Check for any other loose wires in that area.

Fingers crossed its just a loose wire.

 

[martin]

Ok will do that 1st thing in the morning nice one. just done a Google serch with that relay in the glove box and its coming up with a new price of €550, and someone in france has a senond hand one for €150 Lol cant see me paying that, think id rather use the hot wire lead for the rest of time.

 

[Ben]

If its not a loose wire/connection, PM Johnie (spackrackman) and see if hes still got the remains of the 70 I got my new roof from.

If hes still got it that will have one.

 

[martin]

Ok cool cool, tell you what wile your fixing my broken truck, what do you think of the next one.
So 4x4 works fine with 4H button on, however if i have the 4H button off, and try for 4L it only sends low range power to the rear. Push 4H with the stick still in low and low range works to the front and rear. I cant get my head round this one.

 

[Ben]

The H4 switch operates a solenoid mounted on the bulkhead near the brake master cylinder.

The solenoid uses vacuum air pressure via a rubber hose to switch the 2H/4H in the transferbox.

First identify where the hoses are and make sure there connected, then after running the engine, pull one of the hoses off the solenoid. You should here if the pipes were holding pressure or not. If not, again with the engine running see if you can here/see any leaks along the rubber hoses going from the engine to the solenoid.

You should also be able to hear the solenoid clicking open and closed when you press the button, maybe get some one to press it while you have your head in the engine bay.

IMO its more likely a fault with the solenoid/vacuum hoses than the actual transferbox but I may be wrong.

When working its a great system, especially in the snow and with the front hubs locked. Come to any snow/ice, simply press the button, 100 yards-2 miles down the road and your back onto dry tarmac, simply press it again to go back to 2WD and stop the transmission getting wound up.

Good luck with the fixing, fingers crossed there simple problems.

 

[martin]

ok nice one, i have been far too busy playing in it, out in the snow all day today to worrent trying to fix it. after all as soon its its running it start's fine for the rest of the day and as for the all wheel drive bit, its not exactley hard to press a button every now and again.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

The H4 switch operates a solenoid mounted on the bulkhead near the brake master cylinder.

The solenoid uses vacuum air pressure via a rubber hose to switch the 2H/4H in the transferbox.

High and low ratios in the transfer box are selected by the second, smaller, gear lever. Selection of 2WD/4WD is by the electrically controlled, pneumatically operated switch mounted just above the brake booster.

Roger

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Ok cool cool, tell you what wile your fixing my broken truck, what do you think of the next one.
So 4x4 works fine with 4H button on, however if i have the 4H button off, and try for 4L it only sends low range power to the rear. Push 4H with the stick still in low and low range works to the front and rear. I cant get my head round this one.

The t/box has been modified so that low range can be used without 4 wheel drive. This enables you to reverse in low range, for instance when reversing a trailer or caravan, on a dry sealed surface, without transmission wind up. You should find that low to high range and vice versa work normally on the second gear lever and 2WD/4WD works for both ranges. What you wont have is 4WD being automatically selected when low range is selected.

Please confirm.

Roger

 

[Trevor]

When I had it this is how it worked:-

Engaging low ratio from the little stick, automatically engaged 4WD and the green 4WD light comes on in the binnacle.

Assuming the front freewheeling hubs have been manually engaged then pushing the H4 switch on the dash whilst the little stick in is rearwards (High range) then the 4WD drive light in the binnacle lights up and you also have 4WD to play with.

I ran the truck with the freewheel hubs always engaged, so never tried engaging Low Range or H4 without them.

 

[martin]

When I had it this is how it worked:-

Engaging low ratio from the little stick, automatically engaged 4WD and the green 4WD light comes on in the binnacle.

Assuming the front freewheeling hubs have been manually engaged then pushing the H4 switch on the dash whilst the little stick in is rearwards (High range) then the 4WD drive light in the binnacle lights up and you also have 4WD to play with.

I ran the truck with the freewheel hubs always engaged, so never tried engaging Low Range or H4 without them.

Well thats exactley as it was when you gave it to me. That said Rogers comment makes allot of sence however that was not the way that it used to work.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Lets reiterate.

The standard system works as follows.

For normal driving on a sealed surface, the high/low gear lever is in high range (lever pushed forward), the switch on the dash, to the right of the steering wheel, is off ie not pushed in, and the green four wheel drive light on the dash is not illuminated. You can run with the hubs unlocked or locked. If unlocked you should lock them now and again to obtain splash lubrication of the diff and hub internals. Once a month for 20 minutes is OK.

To obtain four wheel drive, high range, you just depress the switch on the dash. The green light will illuminate. You must have your hubs locked in. If you operate the switch without locking the hubs and whilst moving, you will damage the T/box. If you operate the switch whilst stationary and without locking the hubs the light will come on, you will be powering the front diff. but you will be in 2 wheel drive. When you operate the dashboard switch, an electrical current operates a pneumatically vacuum controlled switch on the firewall just above the brake booster. This operates a mechanical linkage within the T/box and locks the gears that transmits the drive to the front axle. In conditions of snow and ice (and to a lesser extent flood water on a sealed surface), you lock in your hubs and then you can select 4 wheel drive, high range, whilst driving, just by the use of the dash switch.

To obtain low range, you stop the car and then pull the high/low gear lever backwards. Note the markings on this lever, H is forward, N in the middle and L4 is back. When you pull the lever into L4, the electrical connection to the pneumatic switch is automatically obtained.

That is how the standard system works. By disconnecting the switch on the T/box that automatically switches you into 4 wheel drive when you engage low range, you are better able to use low range for low speed manoeuvres without getting axle wind up. If the system no longer engages 4 wheel drive in low range then try using the switch on the dash to activate the system. If this works, the culprit is either the T/box switch, the mechanism operating it or the wiring.

Roger

 

[Ben]

Lets reiterate.

The standard system works as follows.

For normal driving on a sealed surface, the high/low gear lever is in high range (lever pushed forward), the switch on the dash, to the right of the steering wheel, is off ie not pushed in, and the green four wheel drive light on the dash is not illuminated. You can run with the hubs unlocked or locked. If unlocked you should lock them now and again to obtain splash lubrication of the diff and hub internals. Once a month for 20 minutes is OK.

To obtain four wheel drive, high range, you just depress the switch on the dash. The green light will illuminate. You must have your hubs locked in. If you operate the switch without locking the hubs and whilst moving, you will damage the T/box. If you operate the switch whilst stationary and without locking the hubs the light will come on, you will be powering the front diff. but you will be in 2 wheel drive. When you operate the dashboard switch, an electrical current operates a pneumatically vacuum controlled switch on the firewall just above the brake booster. This operates a mechanical linkage within the T/box and locks the gears that transmits the drive to the front axle. In conditions of snow and ice (and to a lesser extent flood water on a sealed surface), you lock in your hubs and then you can select 4 wheel drive, high range, whilst driving, just by the use of the dash switch.

To obtain low range, you stop the car and then pull the high/low gear lever backwards. Note the markings on this lever, H is forward, N in the middle and L4 is back. When you pull the lever into L4, the electrical connection to the pneumatic switch is automatically obtained.

That is how the standard system works. By disconnecting the switch on the T/box that automatically switches you into 4 wheel drive when you engage low range, you are better able to use low range for low speed manoeuvres without getting axle wind up. If the system no longer engages 4 wheel drive in low range then try using the switch on the dash to activate the system. If this works, the culprit is either the T/box switch, the mechanism operating it or the wiring.

Roger

Can you explain how having the hubs unlocked, and pressing the 4wd button will damage the transfer case. Surely the front half shafts will just turn?

Regarding disconnecting the switch on the transfer box to give you 2wd low. Surely having the front hubs unlocked and selecting low will have the same effect?

 

[Roger Fairclough]

If the car is moving and the hubs are unlocked, the innards of the front axle are stationary, as are the prop shaft and the front output shaft from the T/box. Unfortunately the rear output shaft is turning so when you operate the dashboard switch, the T/box attempts to engage a moving object with a stationary one. The amount of damage done depends on the speed of the vehicle. And luck. Also, if you are in 2 wheel drive with the rear wheels spinning and attempt to engage 4 wheel drive, you will damage the T/box, probably to a greater extent.

Yes it will but if you drive with your hubs locked in, you would need to unlock them first. If you have the hubs locked in---or have solid drive flanges as I have---you can instantly select 4 wheel drive high range if you encounter snow, ice or deep water on the road. It's your choice.

Roger