Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C' spec

[sae70]

Something that I've been toying with for a long time now is up-rating my 'B' spec (+25%load) Ironman rear springs to 'C' spec (+30%load) ones

While I had all of my shelving unit and off-road paraphernalia out of the vehicle in pursuit of the illusive off-side reversing light wiring viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13340 I had a chance to take a reference point measurement from the ground to the vehicle. Then once it was all loaded back in I took a second measurement. She'd dropped 17mm!!!! When you consider this is just the shelving unit and what I carry day to day in the back of the truck before I chuck in all of my camping gear, stoves, food, spares, Hi-Lift etc for a weekend away it seems a lot of clearance to sacrifice to me. The total weight of what I put back in came to just under 80Kg (I weighed it all as I put it all back in last night, the shelving unit is about 30Kg). There must be another 80/100Kg of other kit when she's loaded for a weekend away on top of this 80Kg!

It's not so much that she dosn't handle well even with all of the additional kit in. I've been to Wales, Shropshire, Lincomb and much local laning without to many problems. It's more to do with the way that she sits, with nowt in she sits as I'd like to see her sit with the 80Kgs of my everyday gear in the back (back end slightly higher than the front end), not a lot just enough to look right. Becoming more level with the extra load in. At present she ends up with her back end lower than the front end when fully loaded for a weekend away Not sure how the new springs will work out Got plenty of time to ponder though as I spoke to Paul today from WestCoast and he want have any 'C' spec rear springs in untill March So popped my name down for a pair as soon as they land

I'll let you know how I get on with them once they're fitted

 

[ignat]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

Have you considered air bags? Gives you some flexibility for when you unload all your gear

 

[Andrew Prince]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

I think Kev's on the money - what happens if the C springs are too harsh? Airbags give you more versatility. Heavier springs would be the answer if your LC is always heavily laden. Obviously the choice is yours Might be worth a try while you wait til March?

 

[sae70]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

I have considered Air-Bag spring assistance as an option and although I have no experience of using them, they do strike me as some thing that I would use if I did a lot of road/dirt track miles towing a heavy trailer or hauling heavy loads in order to correct the ride height of the vehicle. It would worry me that if using them for thick gloopy rutted muddy British off roading they may suffer premature failure due to the constant abrasion from dirt and stones combined with the constant articulation of the suspension and also that when inflated to correct the ride height that they may limit the compression of the suspension.

Many moons ago as a family we owned a succession of different model Citroen's with adjustable suspension and when at full height they really did have some pretty enviable ground clearance, but you wouldn't want to drive to far on tarmac let alone rough ground as they bounced around like a fair ground ride with the suspension at full height. With this in mind I have considered in the past about the possibility of using Air-Bags to push the suspension down to full droop to lift the belly of a grounded vehicle off the ground in order to clear an obstacle. This would be more effective on a vehicle with IFS and awesome on some thing with IS all round like the new Shogun.

All things considered with regards the old Air-Bags I can't help but think that the best result to be had for British off road use is by matching a set of springs to the use and weight of the vehicle in question not withstanding the availability and or cost of said springs. In the case of the Ironman 'C' rated springs this is £120+VAT.

The 'B' rated springs are said to be good for +25% over standard load and as I've said mine are fine overall but I do think that as time goes on and they settle in more and more the now already apparent sag will only become more pronounced.

Although I speak of the 80Kg of kit that is always in the back of the truck right over the back of the rear axle, one also has to consider that the spare wheel hung right out the back of the truck on the back door comes in at 38Kg (+8Kg over standard) viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12506. Then there's a full tank of fuel and a tow bar to consider, not significant on a truck in standard form but added to the above list and then there's the rock sliders and all of this long before I chuck in another 80/100Kg of off road and camping kit for a weekend away.

I do hope that the 'C' rated springs are the answer as they would be a very elegant solution to the problem. They are only 5% greater rated over standard load at +30% compared to the 'B' rated springs at +25%. And if they don't work out, well I'll just remove them, but I do have a good feeling about them at this moment in time

 

[Andrew Prince]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

Steven, the point I was trying to make is that by your own admission, you're trying to cater for two quite different scenarios - one unladen (albeit heavier than standard) and the other laden for weekends away. Fitting springs to work for one scenario means that the other scenario is less than optimal. The challenge is where to set the compromise. Heavier springs will mean a harsh ride with the light load (and will reduce your articulation somewhat is the load isn't heavy enough, just like the airbags - remember the force required to compress is roughly the same either way). Airbags would give you the flexibility to have almost optimum spring rates/lift for both scenarios.

I would think that you're more likely to do hardcore offroading with a modest load in which case lighter springs with more articulation would be preferable over heavy springs and a bone-jarring ride.
Obviously you're the only one who knows your usage and needs, we're just trying to help

Cheers,

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

I would be more concerned that 5% extra won't get the job done than it be bone-jarring? I wouldn't worry about the longevity of air bags, they're made of pretty tough stuff.

 

[sae70]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

You do both make a very valid point and as I said I've been pondering this for some time now between a spring upgrade and Air-Bag spring assisters. I've even had a chat with Matt Savage regarding the pros & cons of Air-Bags more than 12months ago. It has only been very recently that Ironman 'C' rated rear springs have become available for the 90/95 Collie and I do keep thinking that when you very first look at modifying a vehicle for off road use the first step is not to fit a set of Air-Bag spring assisters but for the majority of cases is to fit a spring based suspension lift. I'm not discounting the use of Air-Bag spring assisters by any means, but I do think that the right course of action in the first instance is to try to achieve the desired effect with a spring only upgrade as this if effective is the simplest modification compared to the Air-Bag spring assisters and the least likely compared to the spring assisters to fail once fitted.

I'm happy to put my hands up if after fitting the up-rated springs things don't work out as I hope, but I do still have a good feeling about them. Due to the fact that I don't actually have a real problem with how the current set up performs and as you you've pointed out Jon the 'C' rated springs are only a 5% increase over the 'B' rated springs that I currently have fitted. So hopefully more of a tweak than an all out modification JUMP as when I replaced my tiered old saggy original equipment suspension and fitted the +25% 'B' rated springs

 

[Graham]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

Ny brother has a garage full of MAD air bags, that he bought as a "job lot"

If your interested, I can pm his mobile number

Gra.

 

[Gav Peter]

Re: Going to uprate my 'B' spec Ironman rear springs to 'C'

What's a MAD airbag Gra?? A really crazy one???