Greenlaning and how to remedies

G

Guest

Guest
Julian,
Great review and good insight into the problem
I advocated legal direction as I've seen it work over here in the US.
Often see the larger groups (goverment and feds included and sometimes the
large eco-groups) losing in court by some small group that feel their
"rights" are being impinged.
I see these in the falconry arena as we are a small group that often get a
lot of hassle from eco-armchair groups (Sierra club) etc. and they try and
change some the rights we have as a hunting group. Thankfully a lot of the
enviromental laws are based on science (e.g. breeding numbers etc.) and not
emotional issues (now saying that the pergrine falcon is still not off the
endangered list even though its numbers are more than recovered - this is
the case in the UK as well where they have the highest numbers ever recorded
(and falconry records go back a looong time -as a lot of royalty was into
it)) - so still some emotional aspects left. However with Bush in power now
seeing more 'business' and politcal interests getting their speak.
Sorry gone off topic but back to 4x4ing. The Feds (responsible for a lot of
large tracts of public land and forestry) recently lost a case where they
were trying to shutdown a 4x4 trail but had no 'scientific' facts to back it
up. They lost and the trail remains open and used.
Lal in Colorado
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:00 PM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [ELCO Digest]
Hi Ian,
Coming from a farming/country background here is my 2 pence worth and
feeling in the mood for a late night ramble....
Firstly the goretext brigade (ramblers), you will struggle to get
anywhere with them - they are very well funded, well connected and a
powerful lobbying force. According to Jeremy Clarkson they originated
from the Communist party, I doubt this, but an interesting idea!
Next the Labour party, if the hunting ban has proved anything, it is
that the current government will not listen to reason, they will
commission enquiries into issues and then completely disregard the
results/outcome. More than likely they will follow what the goretext
brigade want.
Unfortunately the 4x4 brigade already have a such a strong negative
image in the public eye and I suspect that any civil disobedience will
just aggravate the situation.
It is all pretty depressing, however I would suggest the following
course of action might achieve something:
Firstly you need to unite all off roaders under a common organisation
with subscriptions to provide a fighting fund - along the same lines as
the Countryside Alliance, but far better organised with a damn site
better PR.
You need to educate the public in general and the people you meet when
travelling along the byways and explain to them why you have a right to
be there. Print leaflets explaining the legalities that can be handed
out, explain the facts, explain the facts that byways are the
equivalent to main roads without the tarmac, etc.... Basically terms
they will understand.
Your biggest enemy is negative image. You have a big problem with off
roaders driving where they shouldn't, wrecking tracks making them
practically impassable by pedestrians and anything less than severely
modified 4x4s as well as causing damage to trees/fences from winching,
etc - this has to be policed by the central body and you need to work
with local councils to try to lessen/repair the damage.
I remember talking to some people from the Wiltshire county Council a
few years ago about groups of 4x4s coming down from London and churning
up the Fosseway (at the time I had a farm to play on so wasn't
necessarily pro the off road community). Their solution was this -
rather than charging building companies to dump rubble at the local tip
they were allowed to dump it for free on sections of the Fosse - this
solved the problems of the massive ruts as well as reduced the
attraction to off roaders only interested in playing in really rough
muddy sections.
I think that this is something that can be replicated around the
country and supported by a central off roading body - perhaps they
could get parties of volunteers to help doing the grading etc.
The days of mud plugging on public byways are limited and you will
struggle to defend it - if you want to do it there are plenty of pay
and play sites and there will always be Salisbury Plain (BTW Ian, are
you coming?).
If you can combat the negative image by making the repair of damage a
top priority then you might stand a chance of retaining some rights.
On the issue of opening up disused tracks I would be inclined to put
this on the back burner - fight for the ones that are already opened
up.
On the issues of landowners blocking tracks, it is a pain in the ass,
but you aren't going to make friends being adversarial about it. You
need a team of local farming related off roaders (there must be some)
to establish why the track has been closed off and then try to
negotiate - the chances are that it has blocked off for stock reasons
or to prevent off roaders causing damage, leaving gates open, etc.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
TheLal
In the UK we have a progressive breeding population of peregrines -
they are a protected species and are monitored. In Bristol over the
Gorge Peregrines nest every year and have done for a good number now.
The Red Kite has now been re-introduced into certain parts of the UK
but their population although improving is not really sufficient to have
a contunual, or viable breeding population as yet, as they still fall
prey to farmers and poison bait.
Smaller hawks like the Falcon are more common then they have ever been,
and Buzzards too. In the Bristol area (environs of Bristol) alone there
are three to four buzzard pairs that I know of, and Bristol is not that
big a place for Buzzard pairs.
The problem in the UK is that our song-bird population is plummeting,
and even the humble starling has taken a crash, sparrows, once common
place, are not so common any more. Lapwings are now being monitored as
their numbers are falling too. And many other bird species are being
monitored.
The Skylark and Curlew you never hear now, they once were common too.
I personally think its very sad and tragic that this situation is
occurring, as a conservationalist and environmentalist its difficult for
me not to get emotionally embroilled in these affairs, although I try
not to
The City of Bristol Museum & Art Gallery where I used to work had a
very active records division, named BRERC, for wildlife monitoring at
one time. This disbanded within months of me leaving. There were three
administrators and I was one of them, I should never have left, but I
guess this is pogress! (progress my a**e!)
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 12/02/04 12:32am >>>
Julian,
Great review and good insight into the problem
I advocated legal direction as I've seen it work over here in the US.
Often see the larger groups (goverment and feds included and sometimes
the
large eco-groups) losing in court by some small group that feel their
"rights" are being impinged.
I see these in the falconry arena as we are a small group that often
get a
lot of hassle from eco-armchair groups (Sierra club) etc. and they try
and
change some the rights we have as a hunting group. Thankfully a lot of
the
enviromental laws are based on science (e.g. breeding numbers etc.) and
not
emotional issues (now saying that the pergrine falcon is still not off
the
endangered list even though its numbers are more than recovered - this
is
the case in the UK as well where they have the highest numbers ever
recorded
(and falconry records go back a looong time -as a lot of royalty was
into
it)) - so still some emotional aspects left. However with Bush in power
now
seeing more 'business' and politcal interests getting their speak.
Sorry gone off topic but back to 4x4ing. The Feds (responsible for a
lot of
large tracts of public land and forestry) recently lost a case where
they
were trying to shutdown a 4x4 trail but had no 'scientific' facts to
back it
up. They lost and the trail remains open and used.
Lal in Colorado
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:00 PM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [ELCO Digest]
Hi Ian,
Coming from a farming/country background here is my 2 pence worth and
feeling in the mood for a late night ramble....
Firstly the goretext brigade (ramblers), you will struggle to get
anywhere with them - they are very well funded, well connected and a
powerful lobbying force. According to Jeremy Clarkson they originated
from the Communist party, I doubt this, but an interesting idea!
Next the Labour party, if the hunting ban has proved anything, it is
that the current government will not listen to reason, they will
commission enquiries into issues and then completely disregard the
results/outcome. More than likely they will follow what the goretext
brigade want.
Unfortunately the 4x4 brigade already have a such a strong negative
image in the public eye and I suspect that any civil disobedience will
just aggravate the situation.
It is all pretty depressing, however I would suggest the following
course of action might achieve something:
Firstly you need to unite all off roaders under a common organisation
with subscriptions to provide a fighting fund - along the same lines
as
the Countryside Alliance, but far better organised with a damn site
better PR.
You need to educate the public in general and the people you meet when
travelling along the byways and explain to them why you have a right
to
be there. Print leaflets explaining the legalities that can be handed
out, explain the facts, explain the facts that byways are the
equivalent to main roads without the tarmac, etc.... Basically terms
they will understand.
Your biggest enemy is negative image. You have a big problem with off
roaders driving where they shouldn't, wrecking tracks making them
practically impassable by pedestrians and anything less than severely
modified 4x4s as well as causing damage to trees/fences from winching,
etc - this has to be policed by the central body and you need to work
with local councils to try to lessen/repair the damage.
I remember talking to some people from the Wiltshire county Council a
few years ago about groups of 4x4s coming down from London and
churning
up the Fosseway (at the time I had a farm to play on so wasn't
necessarily pro the off road community). Their solution was this -
rather than charging building companies to dump rubble at the local
tip
they were allowed to dump it for free on sections of the Fosse - this
solved the problems of the massive ruts as well as reduced the
attraction to off roaders only interested in playing in really rough
muddy sections.
I think that this is something that can be replicated around the
country and supported by a central off roading body - perhaps they
could get parties of volunteers to help doing the grading etc.
The days of mud plugging on public byways are limited and you will
struggle to defend it - if you want to do it there are plenty of pay
and play sites and there will always be Salisbury Plain (BTW Ian, are
you coming?).
If you can combat the negative image by making the repair of damage a
top priority then you might stand a chance of retaining some rights.
On the issue of opening up disused tracks I would be inclined to put
this on the back burner - fight for the ones that are already opened
up.
On the issues of landowners blocking tracks, it is a pain in the ass,
but you aren't going to make friends being adversarial about it. You
need a team of local farming related off roaders (there must be some)
to establish why the track has been closed off and then try to
negotiate - the chances are that it has blocked off for stock reasons
or to prevent off roaders causing damage, leaving gates open, etc.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
Sorry, I don't want to get political on the list, however I get fed up
by the amount of propaganda that is spewed out on a regular basis and
then swallowed up the general public without any reference to the
facts.
I have to say that I dispute that - if the farmers were out and about
poisoning birds of prey, the other raptors like Buzzards, Sparrow Hawks
and Kestrels would also suffer. Also, the farmers have nothing to gain
from it. OK, Gamekeepers might have something to gain, but as someone
heavily involved in the shooting world, I am yet to come across a
keeper that has been involved in killing a bird of prey either directly
or indirectly.
Some of the main reasons that I would attribute this to are:
Fewer nesting sites - most modern houses that have replaced the
countryside where these birds traditionally live lack the eves that
used to provide ideal nesting sites.
Too many moggies - the high numbers of moggies being kept are a
contributing factor.
Increase in predators - the high numbers of Buzzards, Sparrow Hawks and
Kestrels have a major impact.
Usually the farmers get blamed for the drop in bird song numbers and
whilst modern farming practices may not benefit song birds, the
situation is changing.
If you do the maths the increase in moggies as pets and raptors over
the last 40 years alone account for the majority of the decline in
songbirds.
Now if we started culling the moggies and raptors we could reverse the
situation, but I doubt many would want to do that :)
OK sermon over - how about which are the best tyres to use!
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 09:32:40 GMT, Julian Voelcker
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
Oh come on Julian, no one is blaming farmers for that. It's the damn
record industry ripping off birds which get their back on them and
refuse to sign contracts ;-)
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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