How should we progress? (was Protest)

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Hi
As one may observe elsewhere in the world, it is not always a matter of
being right, defending ones point of view, or issuing a demonstration, that
actually contributes to the achievement the goal one may have as primary.
More often than not one may observe that consistent insisting until
everybody else 'agrees' leads to more conflict from wich nobody actually
benefits, other than maybe the short satisfaction of letting out a
frustration.
In some parts of the world conflicts are used to take focus off other
aspects.
So what could be of more relevance for our interests? Maybe to discuss a way
to let everybody have some kind of benefits, so no single party would rule
out others?
Could it be something like:
- no driving if wet and risk of ground damage
- respectfull bypassing, meaning keep aside for others and even turn off
engine while horseriders pass, to let everyone enjoy their trip
- gentle driving with sound proofed vehicles only, so inhabitants is not
offended
- convoys of five vehicles max
- obedience to public signs, reporting of unauthorized signs instead of just
neglecting them
- arrangements to contribute to maintenance of byways - cutting back
branches, mending holes in ground etc.
I know this takes part of the fun, but that part should be placed in
specific terrain suited for mud-plunging and the like, not on byways.
There is no doubt that non-drivers are in majority and can raise the opinion
of environmentalist organizations as well, and that this has huge effect on
political decisions. And that is what sets legislation...
So what are we to win by demonstrating that we do not understand the needs
of non-drivers, or even demonstrating to its full extent why a closure was
needed by driving a huge convoy through the area?
I respect the need for discussions, and I need to let my frustrations out
sometimes too, but please do not let a public place like the Internet be the
source of ammunition for the opponent.
If anyone feels the need for visiting any certain area by all means do so if
it is legal put please take some care not to offend anyone unessesary.
Just my 0.02=A3
Regards..
Henrik
 
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This is what has always been done! At least by the respectful "laning"
community of which I am a member. I have followed and have been an avid
proponent of all of the above for the last ten years at least. I have taken
part in more meetings, discussions with LA's and RoW departments, and lane
repair projects than you can shake a stick at! I have been driving "green
lanes" (although they have only fairly recently been so referred to - 20
years ago they were just roads!) for 25 years with no problems until the
last 5 years or so.
I have urged others to keep to the above rules to the extent that I have
been the subject of "hate" texts and emails from the "more extreme" brigade
and been accused on some forums of being a rambler infiltrator!
I have posted on walking and cycling forums in an attempt to open channels
of communication with other groups.
I have taken part in (at personal cost and risk) court cases to keep lanes
open which is more than most have ever done.
I lobbied, and had meetings with MP's and counsellors over the NERC Bill. I
collated data and wrote a report about the effects of NERC that was sent to
DEFRA and MP's.
At the end of the day none of it mattered one iota - we were stitched up by
ill informed public opinion and a lily livered, ill informed and crass
government!
It has reached the stage where it really doesn't matter any more. The RUPPs
are GONE!!! The dual status roads are GONE!!! The remaining BOATs and UCRs
will be gone via TRO within a few years, there will simply be too much
pressure of use on them to be sustainable as all the traffic concentrates on
fewer and fewer remaining byways. There are simply too many "off-roaders"
wanting to drive the lanes.
A simple drive of a very robust rocky byway that's never ever seen any mud
is simply NOT going to make matters any worse!
Yes, and that's what has happened and will continue to happen, nothing we
now do will change that.
No one is doing that, we're merely pointing out that we exist and we will
not slink off into the night unheard.
We are not aiming to offend anyone. Never have and never will.
My 2p worth ;-)
Pete
 
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Pete
They'll be banning 4x4's altogether next!!
I kid you not!
The end is nigh...........
Niall
 
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Hi Guys
Im not too familier with what is going on to any degree with your lanes etc.
But what has me a little puzzeled is the fact that more and more people seem
to be getting into the 4x4 stuff if even only for the trips /fun days etc
etc.Or is that part of the problem,.
The 4x4 sales have constantly grown every year.
It will end up like over here where you cant go off road unless you pay
somone for the plevelage.
It just makes your feel really jelious when you read the fun the guys in Aus
have on their trips of a week or so duration with families in tow aswell.. A
real case of have cruiser will travel.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hey Niall
I have a solution...how about we all band together and buy a little plot of
rough land, and set ourselves up as an offroading group? a bit like BORDA
but with a bit of land (of which I am a member) but smaller - more 'compact
and biju...' how about it guys? it might solve a few problems we have with
'external' people and organisations. That way we don't get in the way.
If we all pay say, 750 each we could maybe buy a little plot of land and mod
it for offroad use?
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Niall Sommers
Sent: 11 October 2006 09:34
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Pete
They'll be banning 4x4's altogether next!!
I kid you not!
The end is nigh...........
Niall
 
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Hi Renate,
That's not a bad idea, count me in, maybe we could also rent it out to
off-road clubs, for a small fee, and make a business out of it.
As Dellboy would say "this time next year Rodney we could be millionaires"
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renate Haupt" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
 
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Chas / Renate
Great idea. We can put up a big sign: " No Ramblers!, No Tree Huggers!
& No Politicians!" & No Nissans!!
Thankfully in Ireland we still have plenty of unrestricted greenlaning
(& hunting) - for now....
Niall - expecting a slap from Julian any moment
 
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Chas
I'm deadly serious; the Scottish branch of an offroading group has some land
that we orienteered a couple of years ago when I spent some time up there,
the land is north of the Forth Bridge, kind of - in the southern
highlands... - I can enquire if you like? okay its a little far, but I've
got a few contacts and know some nice Inns to stay at for about 2 or 3
nights so a long weekend can be made of it?
But as a matter of course I'll contact BORDA anyway lot and see whether
there's anything they know of?.
The guys I know are really quite approachable and I guess they are a step
ahead of Ray - they're worth contacting so I'll do that - and find a place a
lot nearer than the highlands of scotland...
TTFN
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Chas
Sent: 11 October 2006 11:53
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Hi Renate,
That's not a bad idea, count me in, maybe we could also rent it out to
off-road clubs, for a small fee, and make a business out of it.
As Dellboy would say "this time next year Rodney we could be millionaires"
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renate Haupt" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
 
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Niall
Do you? In that case I'll have to come to Ireland and check it out...we can
meet up on 'your turf' as it were
I still have to contact the museum in Dublin and Queens in Belfast...
Methinks I should do that now...well, after lunch when they're back in their
seats, resting...
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Niall Sommers
Sent: 11 October 2006 12:29
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Chas / Renate
Great idea. We can put up a big sign: " No Ramblers!, No Tree Huggers!
& No Politicians!" & No Nissans!!
Thankfully in Ireland we still have plenty of unrestricted greenlaning
(& hunting) - for now....
Niall - expecting a slap from Julian any moment
 
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Count me in!
Am I aloud to hug trees when no one is looking?
Regards,
Mark Hughes
Sheffield, UK
2000 Colorado 3.0TD GX (95 Series), Standard
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Niall Sommers
Sent: 11 October 2006 12:29
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Chas / Renate
Great idea. We can put up a big sign: " No Ramblers!, No Tree Huggers!
& No Politicians!" & No Nissans!!
Thankfully in Ireland we still have plenty of unrestricted greenlaning (&
hunting) - for now....
Niall - expecting a slap from Julian any moment
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Hey Niall
I thought the green laning thing was vertually dead here.
Maybe Im not looking in the right places but maybe you can tell me all about
where to go.
I thought about the Munster club years ago and felt it was just too far to
go, not distance wise but just time wise with our crappy roads and getting
held up by tractors, trucks, etc.
I looked into other clubs and they seem to play in quarries and forests.
The 80 is just too big and heavy to go playing in the forests and wanting to
drive back home again
So if you can shed some light on where to go and /or who goes aswell.
See it would not be a good thing to go on my own cause I would be lonely.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
SNIP
Thankfully in Ireland we still have plenty of unrestricted greenlaning
(& hunting) - for now....
Niall - expecting a slap from Julian any moment
 
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Mark
Of course you can still hug trees - I still do!
We definitely don't want politicians in our midst! (unless they're working
for us of course)
I reckon we should re-define our turf, I mean, ramblers and those who walk
horses can have a bit that they can call their own and we should be (note da
spelling 'allowed' not 'aloud') allowed to have our bits too! problem
solved! (if only life was this simple...)
TTFN
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Mark Hughes
Sent: 11 October 2006 13:50
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Count me in!
Am I aloud to hug trees when no one is looking?
Regards,
Mark Hughes
Sheffield, UK
2000 Colorado 3.0TD GX (95 Series), Standard
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Niall Sommers
Sent: 11 October 2006 12:29
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Chas / Renate
Great idea. We can put up a big sign: " No Ramblers!, No Tree Huggers!
& No Politicians!" & No Nissans!!
Thankfully in Ireland we still have plenty of unrestricted greenlaning (&
hunting) - for now....
Niall - expecting a slap from Julian any moment
--
European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List Further Info:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/471 - Release Date: 10/10/2006
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Mark, hug all the trees you want quietly (not aloud), but hug my Cruiser
and you're in trouble.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renate Haupt" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
 
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Chas
Its like my biker mates say "touch ma wheels an' yer dead!" actually,
they're not as bad as this - too much media hype - some of those hug trees
too - get this 2 of may biker mates are non meat eaters; one is a vegan...so
there you have it!
Actually, is is true, there are only a few people who have the privilege of
touching ma beast (well, driving it! its not that I don't trust others -
well, sometimes, but nobody can drive it quite like me...) and anyway, they
might damage it!
TTFN
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Chas
Sent: 11 October 2006 15:23
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
Mark, hug all the trees you want quietly (not aloud), but hug my Cruiser
and you're in trouble.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renate Haupt" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] How should we progress? (was Protest)
 
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Alright John
Re you thought the green laning thing was vertually dead here.
Depends what you call green laning i suppose.
Myself and a few lads do a fair bit of diving year round. This takes us
to all kinds of remote places on the south west & north coast (east
being too close to Sellafield). When the weather's bad and it's too
early to go to the pub we get the OS maps out and hit whatever tracks
and lanes we can find - up to TV mast access roads and down bogs -
whatever. I call this green laning. If you have a Caoilte (Irish
Forestry) key then you can get access into miles and miles of forestry
roads - not technically legal but green laning.
In the summer we hit the vast Peat bogs harvested by Bord N Mona in
Kildare. Acres and acres of perfectly flat bog. This we call Brown
Laning and very risky. Soft spots claimed 3 vehicles on us in 1 night.
Took 8 wheeler tractors to get us out. The same night a mitsubishi
Pajero caught fire - peat build up on the exhaust!! - Hilarioous.
At christmas we hit the Tank tracks on the Curragh. This is very risky
as the MP's can arrest you & take your LC. The MP's are normally not
about at Christmas.
If I was in the UK then i'm sure some organisation would class the
above as "Irresponsible" in some shape way or form. But that's the
problem as I see it. Too many people in too many organisations (with
politicians) trying to organise and dictate what you can and can't do.
Overregulationitis.
And I haven't mentioned hunting as this is strictly 4x4!
So John. As the Nike man says - "Just Do It!"
.........because the end is nigh
Cheers
Niall
PS - do you want to come over to the Curragh some day - the Tank tracks
are great. But the MP's might impound your LC.......
 
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Hey Niall
And there was me getting me hopes up that you knew the hidden SAFE trails.
Well thanks a lot for the invitation to the curragh, but ill be washing me
hair that day.
With my luck, im still convinced there is a vodoo doll in the shape of my
cruiser somewhere that some sad person keeps putting pins in every now and
again.
Mp's you say , if I went there would be the whole Irish Army waiting for us,
all twenty of them.
As for the peat bogs well im sure there is a hugh hole waiting in that bog
just for to gobble up the whole cruiser right in front of my eyes.
Ok you may think im covered in feathers but I only have the one cruiser.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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ah john, the curragh is a good laugh, in my view its public property.
Ours taxes paid for it, the rest of it that isnt used by the army is
commanage. its non damaging. im sure i have pics here somewhere of a few
of us down there after christmas. i'll put them up so you can see them
brian
 
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