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I am drowning in information...Help

warrenpfo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
2,895
I have kind of gone and done things the wrong way around and placed the order for a front and rear bumper already have the winch in my position and picked up the ASFIR under body protection for the 100 this morning.

What I have not done is swapped out the AHC yet. From the reading I have done I could fit either the front or the rear bumper and maybe the winch keeping the stock AHC system but it is going to have to work hard and so the best solution is to get rid of the AHC and install standard shocks and springs.

Unless I get a really good deal I plan on keeping my standard torsion bars with the intention of swapping them out later down the road as they should still be able to do the job with the added weight.

I have decided that the look I am wanting is to have the car sitting happy with the bumpers, winch and under body plates fitted but still look as though I have it in “High” mode on the AHC, or certainly between “normal” and “high”.

The car will remain my daily drive so want it to feel as comfortable as I can keep it but do not want to detract from the fact it will still have a set of drawers and a roof top tent to carry when heading out on holiday/trips as well as maybe adding a long-range tank if I can get a good deal on one someday.
Here comes my problem and its one that seems to get worse the more I read.
Once I have decided what brand of shock/spring setup I want to go with and at this stage I am still thinking down the OME route I do not understand where the raise comes from.

From my calculation I would need about a 1.5” to 2” lift to give me the look I want. I would like not to have to do a diff drop but if I have to or if it recommended then I guess I will have no option.
Where does this 1.5” to 2” lift come from? Is it from the new shocks that are longer measuring from eye to eye which gives you the lift or is it the springs. I understand that if you have longer shocks you are going to need longer springs but just want to make sure I have understood where the overall gain in height comes from.

I guess in choosing the appropriate shocks I need to consider the extra weight I have added that will remain on the car like the winch, bumper and tyre carrier and also the added weight I will add when on trips like the extra fuel, storage solution in the rear and the rooftop tent along with the family belongings and food.

If I look at the slee site you get an option of medium load 1.5” and 2.5” lift and also heavy load 1.5” and 2.5” lift kits from OME. Does this mean the lift one gets is from stock and would it settle or lower with the added weight of the bulbar and winch and bumper. IE would the 2.5” lift once fitted really be 2” once settled with all the added daily weight.
There is also the spring rate which I get lost in and the fact you can have air helpers.

Any help would be great and if you could go one better and say this is what you need that would be even better.
 
Warren, there are those out there far better qualified to answer this than me, but picking up on one point - if you have longer shocks, you will need longer springs. It's the other way around. Your lift comes from springs. Either stronger ones that raise the car back up when heavily loaded - ie they don't compress as much as the original weaker ones or you put in longer springs that when compressed stop at the point that you want them to. OR you put in longer stronger springs. That way they don't get compressed as much by your load and raise you up to where you want to be. All the shocks do is stop you wobbling around. (Ok it's not all they do) The limit to any lift can be the shocks if they are too short. But what you don't really want is the shocks getting full extension when you articulate ie they go solid and stop your axle moving anymore when it droops as this puts a huge strain on them. They are acting as a stop. Under normal use, you'll never reach that articulation level I guess. But as I say, if your damper is way to short it will get a right old banging as the piston hits the top of the tube. The idea is to match springs and dampers obviously.

Now if that was a type on your behalf, I've just wasted your time. :roll:

Chris
 
Thank you chris that makes alot more sense to me and you have explained where the lift comes from.

I guess what i need to do then is find appropriate springs for the load i carry daily and plan to carry on trips and then match them to shocks.

I plan on doing most of the offroad driving that i do on dirt roads, sand tracks and i guess the odd muddy track but dont plan on doing any of this rock crawling or heavy stuff.

Thanks :thumbup:
 
Yep. Load AND lift. Nothing wrong with uprating the springs to stay level. It's not a precise science though. But I know that people do fit airbag helpers to their springs so that you can fine tune to any load on a given day.

Chris
 
Or you can get REALLY fancy and retrofit full air suspension at the back, complete with auto-levelling functionality.

Springs and shocks (with air-helpers) will be much simpler and cheaper though :lol:
 
ref dampers-

one thing to bear in mind is that when you fit "stronger" springs you need to have an uprated damper as well - not just to be abit longer, but more importantly to control the rebound on the stronger spring- basically as the spring gets stronger the damper has to work harder to control the spring movement under shock. If you just uprate the spring without changing the damper you will find the whole car is underdamperd- with a roofrack, and extra kit, this can result in severe instability on a 4x4- making things like the "moose test" that much more dangerous.
 
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I have just sent the following note to a member offering me a deal on some dampners:

"Please excuse the ignorance, Dampers are either the rubber thingies that stick down between the springs or they the things that the body hits when bottoming out but I think they are called bump stops...not sure if they are one and the same.

To show my ignorance off even more why would i need to change my current dampers?? Is it because I am changing my springs and so the original will not fit or is it due to the added weight I plan on adding to the truck.

Once again I show my lack of knowledge but please do explain."

Thank you for explaining i guess just like there are many different springs there are also many different dampners?


I am also now swaying towards Bilstiens from some more information i have been given i just need to find out the support for them when back in SA.
 
Just to add to your knowledge, if you over damp ie have really industrial grade dampers and springs that are relatively light, the dampers actually become the suspension. In other words they start to control the movement rather than the spring. I had a mate with a min ans Spax adjustable dampers. He turned them up full and thought it was brilliant until he realised the damage he was causing to the mounting bushes etc due to the fact that the suspension just didn't move anymore. Damping can generate an enormous amount of heat - the energy has to go somewhere. Overworking the unit can lead to failure.


Chris
 
Should i assume that it would be best to err on the side of soft and get slightly softer/lighter/not as stiff dampners and run airhelpers along side them.

Ie get the right dampners for the car for everyday driving and perhaps a light load or trailer and then get air helpers aswell to be used when really loading up.

That is if i am correct in thinking dampners are the rubber thingies inside the springs and if they are then what does a bumpstop look like as i thought they where one and the same.
 
I have now been told "Bilstein is not a good offroad shock as they are monotube"

This means nothing to me can someone explain
 
warrenpfo said:
I have now been told "Bilstein is not a good offroad shock as they are monotube"

This means nothing to me can someone explain

Plenty of Aussies seem to rate them :think:
 
No, dampers, shocks or shock absorbers are the round steel tube things about a foot long running vertically in your wheel arch. But on a 100 with AHC you might not have them. I am a 100 series numpty. I was describing what you need not what you have. Shock absorber is a misnomer incidentally. The spring absorbs the shock. Damper or oscillation reduction and control device would be closer to the truth.

Anything rubber in the arch is either A a tyre or B a bump stop. (Or suspension travel limiting device)

Chris
 
Got it :thumbup:

Springs and dampers not shocks.

We are all now on the same page.
 
fridayman said:
warrenpfo said:
I have now been told "Bilstein is not a good offroad shock as they are monotube"

This means nothing to me can someone explain

Plenty of Aussies seem to rate them :think:
They work vay nicely on MY hundee :mrgreen:
 
Gav Peter said:
They work vay nicely on MY hundee :mrgreen:

Sorry to hijack the thread, but when are we going to see this 100 of yours then Gav? ;) :cool:
 
It's been mentioned by others but you need to get the right combination of springs and shocks or the end result is a long way short of optimal. Your max budget for sorting the suspension and how well sorted you'd like it to be will narrow down your options.

Cheap lifts for the 100 series only give you longer shocks on the rear and are standard length on the front. That's less than ideal because travel on the front is already quite limited and off road or on bad roads it can mean you'l be topping out the front suspension which doesn't feel very nice. You really need to spend more money and get either the custom Bilsteins that Julian supplies in the UK (that's what Gav has and they've very good for the money) or some Fox etc from the states for a lot more money. The thing I'd caution with the Fox etc rebuild able shocks is they sound awesome but you've got to have someone set them up for you to get the most out of them and that's not so easy in the UK, don't know about SA.

You can not bother with a diff drop but if you're going to lift it then you should fit one.
 
warrenpfo said:
John you dont mention Ironman or OME is that for a reason??
The relatively cheap OME and Ironman kits AFAIK do the job and are enough for lots of people but they may not be as robust as the more expensive options I mentioned and they just don't perform as well whether that's soaking up pot holes around town or blasting along a rough track. They are also only standard length at the front. Gav may want to chip in with an opinion but the custom Bilsteins (you can't get them from a normal Bilstein dealer AFAIK) work very well, Darren got the valving on them spot on IMO. I imagine the Fox etc are even better still but only if you can get them set up right and that's the thing that put me off having them so I took the easy option :)
 
The only problem with thinkg like fox and bilstein is that they are adjustable/pre-set/narrow band.

Manually adjustable shocks are great if you have the time/inclination to alter them (or set them up in the first place to your sepcific circumstances), but they aren't necessarily great for a wide range of applications. Often the valving is too specific- it works amazingly well in certain circumstances, but not well in others, whereas shocks from people like OME are designed to work well (but not amazingly0 in all situations.

That's not so say that they are a bad choice- they can be an amazing choice, but they aren't the fir and forget option- nothing is of course, but you have to be aware of the shortcomings of all these options.

Personally running a dual shock setup for overlanding has always seemed an ideal compromise between rugged reliablity, and adapatability to all conditions.
 
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