Insurance - 12 month green card

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Renate's recent insurance query has reminded me that I did not update
the list on my 12 month green card insurance as originally promised,
for which I apologise.
Briefly for those new to the list. I have an offshore registration
which makes it easy for me to live and travel between former
socialist countries in east and south east Europe, as well as go home
to see the in-laws in Minsk, Belarus. I used to have a local Bosnian
car registration but the requirements to qualify annually for local
residence registration just to enable me to then acquire a car
registration got too onerous and personally intrusive. (We also had
an office in Kosovo that was having trouble with vehicles travelling
outside the country with the locally issued UN protectorate plates,
so needed an alternative). The local MoT is also laughable for people
like me with well maintained vehicles who are put through the hoops,
when locals come along and pay a backhander for a certificate for an
obviously unsafe car.
Being locally registered in Bosnia it was no problem to have a green
card along with my locally issued insurance. For those registered
with British companies, a request for a green card valid longer than
3 months is closely questioned, whereas those insured in Europe
expect a long-term green card as crossing borders is so commonplace
on the continent.
When I changed my registration I maintained my local insurance, but
the local law prevented them issuing a green card whatsoever. I
therefore had to buy a pink card 'frontier insurance' certificate
every time I crossed the border. Not only tedious but despite
international agreements about this, only the larger border crossings
have an insurance office, and then the opening hours can be limited.
(On a sunny Sunday last April I drove across both Croatia and
Slovenia un-insured as even their major crossings had no staff at the
insurance offices. In each case I had already passed the border guard
and was then theoretically in the country when I parked at the
insurance office to buy a pink card. Even the Austrian office closed
at 5.00pm but they usually impound the car 50 metres before the
border until you hand-over a valid insurance).
I have since insured the 80 with third party insurance including
unlimited 12 month green card cover. The policy covers all Europe to
the Russian Federation border, that is all the 25 EU members states
(incl Malta & Cyprus) plus - Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Albania,
Andorra, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Belarus, Croatia, Moldova, Macedonia,
Romania, Serbia/CrnaGora, and Ukraine.
This is via a brokerage and insurer in Vienna who follow the old
Austrian tradition of helping those who need to be resourceful when
dealing with cross border regulations to the east of Europe. The
insurance is legally issued against the VIN (or chassis number in my
case), and apart from the name of the insured, the address is given
as c/o the broker's office. Thus making it nicely neutral, and at the
same time 'official looking' to keep sometimes dumb border guards
happy. An Austrian address is also universally non-controversial,
i.e. nice people who don't offend any other country. That may sound
dramatic but once one gets outside EU Europe these things count.
My 1992 80 is valued at euro 10,000 and as it is older than 10 years,
the company can only insure it for third party (not a big problem in
my situation, and its has a good alarm/immobiliser and steering
immobiliser and always carefully parked out of harm's way). I do
have insurance for 4 passengers within the policy. The premium also
includes access to a multi-lingual telephone help line open 24/7.
They also allowed me 30% discount on proof of previous insurance -
from Bosnia. The total premium was euro 651.41. Being the sort of
business they are, they do not have on-line payment facilities. I
paid via a euro CHAPS transfer from my bank.
The insurance company is -
Generali Versicherung AG, (Generali Gruppe), Landskrongasse 1-3, 1010 Wien.
The very sympathetic broker who arranges all this is -
All Risk Insurance Service (ARIS), A-3400 Klosterneuberg, Wienerstrasse. 134.
<www.aris.at>
Romana Memic is the very helpful lady who handled my policy and can
be mailed directly at <[Email address removed]>
All they need to know is your VIN number, production date, vehicle
value, number of seats, and power of engine. They are not interested
in any modifications like lifted suspension or bullbars etc. Neither
are they bothered at your travelling habits, especially your length
of stay within any one country.
I hope that helps any of you who need to find such flexible insurance
for extensive continental travel. It is not for those living in
UK/Eire who make occasional trips abroad covered by their UK
insurer's normal green card scheme.
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon C-W" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: [ELCO] Insurance - 12 month green card
 
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Hi Guys
I have to ask, if Jon is able to get insurance in Austria for all of the
EU, is it possible to get insurance in any county in the EU for travel in
the EU without being resident in that country.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Dear John B,
I believe there is a rather silly EU law that states that a car registered
in one EU state cannot be insured by a company who's place of business is in
another state.
You might note that John's 'sympathetic' insurer only gives him third party
cover, a basic legal requirement and a policy that John himself will never
have to claim on, only the other party.
I've seen such policies offered in the UK. They certainly keep you legal and
in John's unusual circumstances where he falls between normal coverage
criteria they are very useful.
I imagine that if a claim were to be made on it, patience would be required
for a resolution.
If you got a tug from the law in Ireland and produced an Irish licence and
registration and Austrian insurance, I imagine it would be an interesting
conversation.
Best regards
Neill Watson
On 9/4/06 10:27 pm, "John Byrne" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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On the subject of green cards. I recently imported a vehicle from
Germany, the person that I bought it from gave me the green card from
his insurance, that covered me, to drive it home. The green card was
for five years. So much for UK insurers giving cards out for a few
weeks as if they are doing you a favour.
Regards, Clive.
 
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My father in law has a 365 day green card printed on the reverse of his
policy, even though he never asked for it.
As far as I know, a green card is no longer needed for travel within the EU,
though I may be wrong and, of course, that may be the law, but is every EU
plod aware of that?
Regards
Neill Watson
On 10/4/06 8:26 am, "Clive Marks" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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i was wondering the same thing. my policy covers me in all of europe and
places like croatia and slovakia, lithuainia and i think it covers some
countries in north africa too. there is no limit on the time i spend
away from my home country where my insurance is based from.
just thought it was like that for most policies until i read about some
members dificulties with insurance.
bc
Neill Watson wrote:
 
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I posted this in order to provide helpful information and no more. It
is factual.
Neill wrote...
You might note that John's 'sympathetic' insurer only gives him third party
cover, a basic legal requirement and a policy that John himself will never
have to claim on, only the other party.
SNIP
And Neill you appear to be making an implication that does not exist,
read my words again.....
Quote
.....and as it is older than 10 years, the company can only insure it
for third party.....
SNIP
They 'only gives him' because the vehicle is over 10 years. Less
than 10 years old and I can have fully com plus protected premium,
free hire car after accident etc. etc. etc. In fact all the goodies
that you would expect from a UK insurer, or anywhere else in Europe
for that matter.
My posting was too long as it was, and I could have made a much
longer description of their services, but that is also why I gave
their web address so that readers can do their own research. I
thought listers might thank me for keeping my prose as brief as
possible. This is not a fly-by-night company working on the fringes
of the law, they issue all relevant documentation including the
CEA European accident report form. You may be assured that after
working overseas for over 21 years now, I do have some good contacts,
especially after working in two diplomatic missions in recent years
and having diplo status. People like ARIS provide solutions to those
who have to work in difficult circumstances and they can overcome
what are perceived as immovable obstacles. When you have a diplo
registration it is these companies one turns to for insurance cover -
you may also have heard of another called 'Van Breda'. These
companies are out there if you have a need to find them.
Clive's comment, as always, is on the nail. But at times I wonder if
what are thought to be EU laws are no more than a 'code of practice'
which insurers follow with little legal back-up. As for the '365 day
green card', I can make no comment except that I had a friend who had
one also. He looked at some very small print somewhere in his policy
and found that it was valid through the 365 days of the policy but it
could not be used more than 'X' days continuously at any one time, I
think it was 90 days maximum.
As for being stopped and checked in the EU, thankfully I have only
ever met police at border crossings, not on the road. Certainly when
one enters the EU the green card is checked. Austria in particular
are very thorough about this. They also want to see a reflective
jacket for roadside emergencies, plus on occasions they want to see a
warning triangle is carried. One more warning about Austria worth
mentioning is road taxation. When one leaves the EU via an Austrian
border they want to see a valid road carnet sticker in your screen -
a greenish diamond with a hologram on it. No matter how many days or
hours you can claim you have been in the country, they will fine you
350 euros before they allow you out of the country. (They did it to a
British mate who is a colonel in our local peacekeepers and uses a
diplo plate issued by the Brit mbsy in Sarajevo.) But they do not
insist you buy one at the border on entry, and of course under
Schengen rules you are not checked when crossing their internal
borders to other EU countries. My usual trip from Maribor crossing
due north to Passau in Germany takes about four hours with a stop on
the way. Thankfully one can buy the carnets at the main service
stations and the minimum is of 3 days duration, so not too expensive.
For the time being they are also making a double check on those
entering Austria via new EU member states and checking carnets when
exiting to Slovenia and Hungary. There is no hiding place!
Any more comments or queries, I will gladly answer off-list, let's
not prolong it here.
Cheers
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus.
 
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Jon
Well I thought it was useful info - thanks for posting it.
I'm driving from the UK to N Italy this summer, and while route-planning
is still in progress we just *might* digress to Austria.
So this "carnet" you are talking about: am I supposed to get one? I
have all the other triangles, jacket, bulbs, etc. (Memo, must get a
fire-extinguisher.)
Christopher Bell
Ps: I've just checked my UK insurance certificate from Norwich Union
Direct, and it has multilingual blurb on the back in several languages
(including Croatian) saying in so may words that "this gives 3rd party
cover to the minimum required by law, and is valid throughout the EU".
I'll check with them before I go, but I imagine extending the current
fully comp insurance for a month in Western Europe won't be a problem.
| carried. One more warning about Austria worth mentioning is
| road taxation. When one leaves the EU via an Austrian border
| they want to see a valid road carnet sticker in your screen -
| a greenish diamond with a hologram on it. No matter how many
| days or hours you can claim you have been in the country,
| they will fine you 350 euros before they allow you out of the
| country. (They did it to a British mate who is a colonel in
| our local peacekeepers and uses a diplo plate issued by the
| Brit mbsy in Sarajevo.) But they do not insist you buy one
| at the border on entry, and of course under Schengen rules
| you are not checked when crossing their internal borders to
| other EU countries. My usual trip from Maribor crossing due
| north to Passau in Germany takes about four hours with a stop
| on the way. Thankfully one can buy the carnets at the main
| service stations and the minimum is of 3 days duration, so
| not too expensive.
| For the time being they are also making a double check on
| those entering Austria via new EU member states and checking
| carnets when exiting to Slovenia and Hungary. There is no
| hiding place!
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Dear John,
Many thanks for taking the time to post such a lot of information. Regarding
my post, perhaps I chose my words hastily and the use of comments around the
word sympathetic was unwise, no offence was intended.
Speaking as someone who has only recently given up on trying to claim
against a truly crappy policy held by someone who openly admitted that he
bought it knowing full well that it was virtually impossible to claim and
was only good for showing to policemen, my words were probably chosen in
haste.
That's the thing with this fangled internet thingy, you can't look someone
in the eye and see the expression :)
Best regards
Neill W
On 11/4/06 9:20 am, "Jon C-W" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Morning All
<DeLurk>
Neill Wrote
Speaking as someone who has only recently given up on trying to claim against a truly crappy policy held by someone who openly admitted that he bought it knowing full well that it was virtually impossible to claim against.<
Surely your claim is against the person, and not his policy?
Will your insurer not persue him for damages/costs, and if so, do you not have legal insurance with your policy, as they will often persue individuals on your behalf, although they will only do so, if there is a greater than 50% chance of winning.
Hope this helps
Strange John john(hates insurers)[Email address removed]
Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my mind the most.
2000 4.6 HSE - soon to be an LC(I Hope)
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Long story. Actually happened four years ago, believe it or not. Got to the
pint where I was legally right, but still financially out of pocket.
Drew a line under it and moved on.
Regards
Neill W
On 11/4/06 12:08 pm, "John Strang" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Christopher,
The way I interpreted John's information was that you only need
the carnet in Austria if you leave the EU there, Italy to Austria and
back would be no problem.
 
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Me too, but I thought that getting the info from the horse's mouth might
be a good idea just in case it's not that simple.
I know the Swiss have, or at least had, a "rip off visitors for using
our motorways" scheme with reduced rates for natives. Perhaps I should
put my AA membership to the test by asking them...
CB
| Subject: Re: [ELCO] Insurance - 12 month green card
|
| Christopher,
|
| The way I interpreted John's information was that you
| only need the carnet in Austria if you leave the EU there,
| Italy to Austria and back would be no problem.
| --
| European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List Further Info:
| http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
|
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Chris,
The Swiss do have a motorway toll system. The system involves
buying a windscreen stamp as you enter the country and gives you
access to the motorways for the calendar year. You do not have to buy
the stamp if you are not going to use the motorways. Compared to the
French motorway tolls the Swiss scheme is good value.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Before I start - JULIAN - my digest last night seemed a bit
foreshortened. Below is the header from the first message at the top
of the digest.
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Insurance - 12 month green card
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:08:20 +0100
From: "John Strang" <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Following messages from Clive and Chris appear to refer to other
comments made which unfortunately do not appear on my digest. In fact
they appear in turn to refer to a posting I made early Tuesday which
also does not appear in my digest. So I might be groping in the dark
here, but you will show sympathy I know ;-)
However.
Following comment by Chris and Clive, can I just clear-up any
confusion I may have caused about Austria. In passing I did mention
the Schengen area. So let me clear this up. Schengen is an agreement
by a few 'old' EU members for the elimination of overt border
controls. From memory this exists between Denmark, the Benelux
countries, Germany, France, Spain, Italy and Austria. So when you
cross the border between those states in theory you will not go
through any form of obvious control. (Though one day whilst having a
break at the old - now 'open' - Aachen border post we saw the police
stop a car, put it into an open-sided tent and then turn it over.)
Austria has open borders to the Schengen neighbours, Italy and
Germany, and controlled borders to the non-Schengen neighbours -
Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary and Slovenia. Crossing to Switzerland of
course is neither and has the usual controls. But for anyone
crossing any borders in the EU that appear not to be controlled,
don't you believe it, there are covert controls in operation. Big
brother has his eye on you. Risk not buying the Austrian road carnet
at your peril !
Cheers
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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Hi Jon,
Please could you forward me the ones that you have had problems with
and then I can look into it.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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