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Interesting article on improving brakes on Land Cruisers
- Thread starter Bmonck
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As stated in the title, that certainly is an interesting read Bosworth, many thanks for posting.
It’s hard to believe that marketing departments can get away with stating blatant untruths, the average motorist and DIY enthusiast will likely neither be an engineer nor an expert on thermodynamics.
It’s hard to believe that marketing departments can get away with stating blatant untruths, the average motorist and DIY enthusiast will likely neither be an engineer nor an expert on thermodynamics.
moggy1968
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Interesting stuff, especially about drilled and grooves. I had presumed that heat dissipation was better due to the greater surface area.
One thing people omit to do is actually ensure their braking system is in a good state. Good fluid and flexible hoses in good condition.
A good driver can stop faster in a straight line without abs than with. Abs is for people that panic and lock up and can’t cadence brake. Abs will allow you to turn and brake much better than cadence braking.
Dot 5 is I believe not suitable for older vehicles.
Don’t ride your brakes down hill (even though apparently this is what they rather foolishly now teach learner drivers)!!
One thing people omit to do is actually ensure their braking system is in a good state. Good fluid and flexible hoses in good condition.
A good driver can stop faster in a straight line without abs than with. Abs is for people that panic and lock up and can’t cadence brake. Abs will allow you to turn and brake much better than cadence braking.
Dot 5 is I believe not suitable for older vehicles.
Don’t ride your brakes down hill (even though apparently this is what they rather foolishly now teach learner drivers)!!
It is interesting but not sure I believe every single word of it. Mogg's right about fettling your system regularly. A standard set up in good condition is going to be better than a fancy set up just chucked on because it looks nice. When I changed my 20 year old hoses for braided ones, my brakes nearly put me through the screen.
Interesting well written article. I’ve read a lot of that elsewhere when I did my front axle rebuild. I went for EBC yellow stuff brake pads on EBC rotors and had no real improvement on stock. Changed to Milners ceramic pads and had no real difference. Except they last longer and don’t create so much dust (man they were dusty). I haven’t changed fluid. That clearly needs total flushing to change above DOT 4. I don’t have trouble stopping the wheels it’s the adhesion if the wheels to the surface that’s the limiting factor.
Quick tip on hill descent given to me by a grade 1 Police driver; use engine braking early and if speed increases, brake short and hard on the straights to make it count. Obviously without inducing a skid. That way you use your brakes far less than otherwise.
Quick tip on hill descent given to me by a grade 1 Police driver; use engine braking early and if speed increases, brake short and hard on the straights to make it count. Obviously without inducing a skid. That way you use your brakes far less than otherwise.
moggy1968
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Absolutely, learnt that in my hgv lessons.
If you ride the brakes in a truck by the bottom of the hill you will have no brakes, and with 30+tons that’s scary!!
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How do you find out if you can put dot5 or dot4? What is the difference ?
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I found the article all a bit pointless , obviously new brakes are better than old brakes and anything that convinces you to "upgrade" can only be good . As for steep descent i generally pick the next place i will attempt to stop again and again until i reach the bottom , of course my preference for a manual gearbox helps greatly with
that .
that .
moggy1968
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If you have a read of the article it explains the difference.
Interesting article written by someone who did not understand engine braking comes before braking downhill and creating the fade scenario in the first place.
There are one or two points I would address, cross drilling does reduce mass but also helps prevent distortion IMO by relieving internal stress in the disc material during severe heating/cooling events. He mentions the cross drilled holes get blocked, that is true, my competition Discovery had the cross drilled discs front and rear, mud and all sorts jammed them up, and the screeching noises as little stones get caught in all sorts of places would drive you nuts for days after being off road.
The point made about have 6 or 8 pot calipers added to the pressure on the disc creating more heat is at best a weak one, remember the bigger pad will absorb more heat and will disperse it through more pistons, more volume of fluid and of course the bigger calliper.
He questions the claim that a certain brake is lighter so cannot be better, this is about application, a lighter disc offers the suspension less unsprung weight so is in fact an advantage in certain vehicles.
I went with dimpled and slotted front and rear on the 80, I can still overheat them when driving enthusiastly, but there is no hint of distortion or vibration, pedal stays firm but you can feel there is less retardation for the same pedal pressure once they get hot. And of course no mud or stones in the non existent holes.
Some of the claims in his advert example could actually be valid for example, 30% better stopping power, you can modify stopping power by modifying the pad material, or put another way, greater retardation for the same pedal pressure for example. But it is true many are easily misled by the skills of a good marketing department.
IMO the stock 80 brakes are just about adequate, when loaded to max they are not really up to snuff. Do my brake mods give me better brakes? Without doubt there is more initial bite and and the pedal has a better 'feel', all subjective I know but it is there, I would say in overall performance probably yes, but cost ratio versus stock, then no.
Right, now where was that advert for the penis enlargement device?
Regards
Dave
There are one or two points I would address, cross drilling does reduce mass but also helps prevent distortion IMO by relieving internal stress in the disc material during severe heating/cooling events. He mentions the cross drilled holes get blocked, that is true, my competition Discovery had the cross drilled discs front and rear, mud and all sorts jammed them up, and the screeching noises as little stones get caught in all sorts of places would drive you nuts for days after being off road.
The point made about have 6 or 8 pot calipers added to the pressure on the disc creating more heat is at best a weak one, remember the bigger pad will absorb more heat and will disperse it through more pistons, more volume of fluid and of course the bigger calliper.
He questions the claim that a certain brake is lighter so cannot be better, this is about application, a lighter disc offers the suspension less unsprung weight so is in fact an advantage in certain vehicles.
I went with dimpled and slotted front and rear on the 80, I can still overheat them when driving enthusiastly, but there is no hint of distortion or vibration, pedal stays firm but you can feel there is less retardation for the same pedal pressure once they get hot. And of course no mud or stones in the non existent holes.
Some of the claims in his advert example could actually be valid for example, 30% better stopping power, you can modify stopping power by modifying the pad material, or put another way, greater retardation for the same pedal pressure for example. But it is true many are easily misled by the skills of a good marketing department.
IMO the stock 80 brakes are just about adequate, when loaded to max they are not really up to snuff. Do my brake mods give me better brakes? Without doubt there is more initial bite and and the pedal has a better 'feel', all subjective I know but it is there, I would say in overall performance probably yes, but cost ratio versus stock, then no.
Right, now where was that advert for the penis enlargement device?
Regards
Dave
What makes you say that @Shayne ?
An auto box has lower gears you can select manually and direct engine braking through the overrun clutch in the torque converter. With an auto going downhill, at no point is the engine disconnected from the drivetrain for more than a fraction of a second.
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A bit over the top, but pretty effective and could be handy if towing: http://gearingdynamics.com.au/Exhaust-Brake-for-small-diesel-vehicles
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The auto still wants to run away though
But would be no different to a manual under the same conditions though Nick. Mine doesn’t. I can go down Bury hill near me at 10% from top to bottom in second without touching the brakes but with slight speed increase. A steeper hill might cause more speed increase.
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