Interesting article on improving brakes on Land Cruisers

[StarCruiser]

I've only driven rosies manuel down a hill once, nothing steep but i had to accelerate down the hill where as in mine i had to break down the hill. Cant say what gears were used but i was amazed by the difference

Maybe his was in low range? Unless you’ve got a problem with your torque converter. It’s possible the auto ratio in first is less of a reduction given the ability of the torque converter to vary the speed up to a slightly higher gear I suppose.

 

[fbnss]

W

Maybe his was in low range? Unless you’ve got a problem with your torque converter. It’s possible the auto ratio in first is less of a reduction given the ability of the torque converter to vary the speed up to a slightly higher gear I suppose.

We were both in low range, just manuals seem to have far better engine breaking. Cant remember but say i was in 2 on the box with od off

Just remembered, on the motorway he was screaming along to do 80 where as mine was just plodding doing 80.

 

[moggy1968]

It’s generally recognised that engine braking isn’t as effective in an auto.

 

[moggy1968]

I've only driven rosies manuel down a hill once, nothing steep but i had to accelerate down the hill where as in mine i had to break down the hill. Cant say what gears were used but i was amazed by the difference

I didn’t know she was married to a Spanish waiter
I drove my missus up the wall!!

 

[StarCruiser]

I didn’t know she was married to a Spanish waiter
I drove my missus up the wall!!

Except that Rosy is a He. …

Easy mistakea to makea

 

[StarCruiser]

It’s generally recognised that engine braking isn’t as effective in an auto.

This must be down to gear ratios being higher in an auto then.

 

[grantw]

This must be down to gear ratios being higher in an auto then.

Isn't there also a certain about of slippage in the torque converter as well? I have seen kits to be able to lock it.

 

[fbnss]

Isn't there also a certain about of slippage in the torque converter as well? I have seen kits to be able to lock it.

2 grand plus postage!

 

[grantw]

2 grand plus postage!

Ouch!

I don't have an auto so haven't ever looked into it.

Quick google showed this though.

https://automatictransmission.com.a...to-suit-toyota-landcruiser-80-series-4-speed/

Edit: ^ that is only part of the kit

 

[fbnss]

Ouch!

I don't have an auto so haven't ever looked into it.

Quick google showed this though.

https://automatictransmission.com.a...to-suit-toyota-landcruiser-80-series-4-speed/

Edit: ^ that is only part of the kit

Yeah, the other bit knocks the price up a bit

 

[Shayne]

All this talk about brakes makes me think I should actually do something with my 80s series ones. Anyone in the UK do a full kit like this? Doesn't seem that bad for what you get in it. Sorry for the thread hijack.

Send all 4 calipers to Bigg Red LTD for a refurb , change fluid and disks and like as not you will be shocked at the improvement .

 

[stumog]

@Tom had that kit and didn't like it at all. He had lots of problems end up getting one made up in the UK.

I wouldn't have a auto unless you can lock it all up. Makes a massive difference.

 

[moggy1968]

Except that Rosy is a He. …

Easy mistakea to makea

Oh, so he married a Spanish waiter, well, I guess in this modern homogeneous world we now apparently live in .......

 

[Dave2000]

An 80 auto cannot match a manual using engine braking, the torque converter unless modified does not provide a true mechanical lock from engine to gearbox.

Now here is the rub, many years ago Ford gearboxes (C3 for example) had a rear propshaft driven pump in the gearbox, this provided the clutch packs with enough pressure to engage and allow a tow start of the engine, IIRC the reverse pressure locked the stator in the torque converter, hence no slippage and the engine was turned over and started.

80's do not have the lockable version, so unless the TC is modified there will be slippage and hence a lot less engine braking in comparison with a manual. I have driven both, trust me I can walk next to mine (manual) on a steep downhill slope, not so on the same hill with the auto.

Regards

Dave

 

[StarCruiser]

An 80 auto cannot match a manual using engine braking, the torque converter unless modified does not provide a true mechanical lock from engine to gearbox.

80's do not have the lockable version, so unless the TC is modified there will be slippage and hence a lot less engine braking

I was going by this recent post by Flint in another thread which I found interesting and educational

“I don't know if the design has changed much, but this pic is of an '86 Land Cruiser torque convertor. ”

The Sprag clutch is there to connect the engine to gearbox on overrun. Don’t know if earlier 80s had it but it certainly feels like mine does. In Low range and L on the shift there is significant retardation, though from what is said here, clearly not the same as a manual.

I can see gear ratios in an auto box being taller and effectively missing a ratio similar to 1st on a manual.

I had the same thought as Flint with the exhaust retarder shown here
http://gearingdynamics.com.au/Exhaust-Brake-for-small-diesel-vehicles
Lorries have it and it can be very effective if used correctly. Other systems in the states (maybe here, perhaps) is a valve altering device called a ‘Jake Brake’ which performs much the same function.

Every day’s a school day and I’m happy to be corrected if any of this is wrong.

 

[stumog]

Interesting find that Rich. They are really helpful and would be good on something that rows or does very long downhills

 

[StarCruiser]

Interesting find that Rich. They are really helpful and would be good on something that rows or does very long downhills

‘Twas not I, Stu, it was Flint that found it.

I believe there are electrical or electromagnetic retarders used on coaches and all manner of brake force harvesting devices used on busses to add to their acceleration away from the stop. I believe Volvo were trialling, possibly using, a hydraulic system.

 

[flint]

Best watched with a cuppa (it's quite long), but this video gives a pretty good idea of what goes on in a torque convertor. The one way clutch on the stator doesn't lock the engine to the gearbox, it just determines when the stator operates. Running down through the gears on an auto does help with braking, but not as much as with a manual box. The Telma retarders (electromagnetic) that operate on the prop shaft are best suited to heavies really.

 

[stumog]

I have driven loads of stuff with retarders of different method. You basicly have a electro magnet on the prop shaft that comes on in a varied pressure. Not good English but can't think.how to explain...

 

[Bmonck]

Best watched with a cuppa (it's quite long), but this video gives a pretty good idea of what goes on in a torque convertor. The one way clutch on the stator doesn't lock the engine to the gearbox, it just determines when the stator operates. Running down through the gears on an auto does help with braking, but not as much as with a manual box. The Telma retarders (electromagnetic) that operate on the prop shaft are best suited to heavies really.

Great video for the mechanically challenged. Thanks