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Interesting results on an early BEB swap

Chris

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There are many posts on BEBs for the 1HD-T engine, most being swapped with at least 100 000 mile on the dash. Some have shown early signs and some have been, well frankly miraculous that the engine hadn't thrown a rod. My first 80 was done at 107k and two cylinders were showing some pretty serious degradation. I appreciate also that some shells have come out looking like they'd go the stars and back. There have been lots of discussions about the cause of this degradation, but it's clearly not wear. Material seems to be removed from one part of the bearing and generally deposited somewhere else building high and low spots. Some of the metal simply disappears.

The perceived wisdom is that it is connected to the chemical composition of Japanese V European oils ad their respective calcium content. Low calcium EU oils seem to leach the calcium out of the white metal of the shells. Look, it's what I have read :hand: Possibly changing your oil more often might have a detrimental effect as you keep introducing new low calcium oil. But, there is a randomness to this whole story that I can't explain.

So, here's my result. I have a 94 12v auto with 71 000 on it. Yes, that's seventy one thousand miles. I bought it as a non-runner after it had stood for 8 years. DVLA confirmed that it had not been on the road since 2003.

So why bother to change the BEBs. Even with current form, they should be good for another 30k or with my driving, 6 years.

Here's what a typical shell looked like when I pulled them

P1000669.jpg


And another. Ignore the little marks on there, these have been bounced on the drive, wiped, chucked in a tin etc.

P1000675.jpg


But on number 2, which was the last one to get pulled, I found this on the bottom cap

P1000674.jpg


Some little familiar looking marks.

Then when I inspected the top shell.....

P1000673.jpg


Now, I know that these would have run to 100k at least, but it's interesting that on such an almost unique vehicle there are signs of degradation. When you look VERY carefully, some of the shells have the faintest of marks appearing. They wouldn't show up in a piccy.

Yes, I could have put them all back in and saved the money on the ACLs. I could have probably used the cap bolts again. I bet you could torque to 27 ft lbs plus 90 degrees and they'd go forever. But why chance it?

So anyone out there who is new to this and thinks that careful maintenance or low mileage means that the bearings will be perfect, had better think again.


Chris
 
Hi Chris,
Good write up.
Would you suggest it's just the 80 series 1HD-T that has this bearing issue?
What about bearings from a 70 series, 2,4L or a 70 series 3,0L ?

What about the 1KD-FTV, the D4-d , I wonder if they could be affected?

Graham
 
G, as far as received wisdom goes, this is restricted to the 1HD-T only. The 24v version doesn't suffer. I can't tell you about any other series other than there don't seem to be threads about them across the World, so I am guessing not.


Chris
 
Makes you wonder about the MAIN bearings, are they made from the same material !!!!.

Did mine at 110k & they were a lot worse than yours chris
 
Nicely done Chris. Mine came put at 115000 and much to my relief were unmarked. At julians I saw many many examples of some scary ones. And seen several 80 series at Stefs with engine failed becuase they had not been done, my favourite was the one with a huge hole in the side of the block, it still ran but for some reason was a bit rough.... :whistle: And a fair bit of oil was coming of out the hole.

Anyone reading this don't delay get it done and have some peace of mind.
 
Thanks for posting your findings Chris :thumbup:

My 92 JDM import had 106,000km (66,000 miles) on the clock when I changed mine. I'm not sure how true the mileage is but mine were very similar. Most were fine but the top shell of number 2 (might be No5) was showing signs of deterioration exactly the same as Chris'.

i-q54zfBc-L.jpg


i-36nvWtF-L.jpg


During my complete engine rebuild at 118,000km the mains were replaced but in all honesty they were almost as good as the day they were put in there. The ACL mains were replaced again but obviously didn't need doing :doh:
 
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I've just done mine today a very early (no 172 !!) 80 series HDJ81 with 180k km's

Original's & looks like its never apart before. To be honest I'd have said it would have happily have run for another 100k despite the damage'd no4 as its visually bad but actually quite OK.

A good mate of mine is an engine builder, he reckons the bearings delaminating was a common issue with that type of bearing, (he said cheap bearings) its delamination between the layers in the metal.

All good except for No 4's
IMAG0105.jpg


No4's have what can be described as contamination damage, plus some pitting thats similar to others out there. Very slight/feint marking to the crank journal on No4.

Bottom side
IMAG0106.jpg


Top side
IMAG0107.jpg
 
Hi Chris! Thank you for sharing. :clap:
Just wondering is that any sign whereby you can justify the BEB issue without actually dismantling the whole engine?
 
The only sign needed is that you have an 80 series 12 valve!
 
i still need to get round to doing mine. no history of them being changed and 200+k on the clock.... i wonder what condition they'll be in!
 
Only one way to find out matey. Out with the spanners. No earthly reason to put it off. Even if you have not had the same going on as we have, 200k is as good a reason as any to swap them anyway.

Chris
 
need to get some replacement big end bolts and then i've got everything and i'll give it a go :D
 
:shock: :shock: :shock: blooming eck and they say they go forever, I guess not if you dont change the big ends ever 60 to 70 k.

Have to say looking at the shells the crank must also have some marks surely
 
paulm said:
need to get some replacement big end bolts and then i've got everything and i'll give it a go :D
Pull your finger out lad..... at 200k you're on borrowed time. You don't want to be the focus of the next 'knock knock' joke do you :D

J66P said:
.... Have to say looking at the shells the crank must also have some marks surely
As long as it is only the White metal of the bearing that is damaged then the crank will be fine.... but once the White metal starts to go it's only a matter of time before the crank gets damaged.
 
Crank was mint. My previous one had some scoring on No1 but that looked mechanical. Ran fine with the new bearings - no it didn't cause the fire.

C
 
bolts ordered, picking them up on tuesday - will try and get it done next weekend :)
 
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