Is the Engine a write off

[Stanna]

Hi All
New here and on behalf of relative with a dead 100 series.
Driving along at 90kph in cruise control when there was a crunch and a bang and power dropped. Black smoke poured from bonnet and filled the cab. Engine cut out and had to wrestle it to hard shoulder. Let smoke clear and nothing on the key.
It was recovered to a Ford garage and they decided it was a transmission problem. They removed gearbox and clutch was burnt out. However they informed the engine was seized. At this point it was recovered to my relatives house.
Im trying to diagnose but never worked on a Land cruiser. Timing belt is intact and starter works ok (i heard they can break off into bell housing).
Im removing rad fan to get a spanner on crank shaft to see if it will turn. (any idea on spanner size).
Can anyone give me an idea what this may be and how to complete a diagnosis. Im thinking the oil pump gave up but not sure.
Only 150k on clock.
Thanks in advance

 

[StarCruiser]

Hi Stanna and welcome.

Sorry to hear of this. This is a very rare occasion for a cruiser.

Check everything is the answer.
Draining the oil will show any metal particles in the pan. Try and turn it.
Did it coast to a halt or feel like the engine seized (heavy braking). What did the smoke smell like? Oil? Brake lining?
Is it petrol or diesel?

If you’re lucky it could be that the clutch has destroyed itself jamming both engine and transmission. You can probably see into the bell housing to check this though I’m unfamiliar with manuals.

 

[Stanna]

HiStar . Thanks for your reply.
He seems to think he coasted to a stop and thinks smell might have been the clutch. Gearbox is off and clutch is in a poor state and looks burnt. He does remember the engine suddenly revving really high before the bang. It could be the clutch giving up.
Im going to try cranking the engine via crank pulley bolt but as im no expert on diesel wasnt sure if this was possible due to compression. Is there a way to reduce this as of course there are no spark plugs to remove?
Im not at home so have limited tools but wondered what size crank bolt is as i cant get in to measure.
Thanks again.

 

[StarCruiser]

Just try a socket. TBH if you can get a good hold of the crank pulley with some gloves on you should just be able to turn it. It’s not easy but is doable. The compression should disperse turning slowly. Not sure the starter would be damaged so if it turns over on the starter then that’s good. With gearbox off you should be able to see what state the starter is in which should be perfectly good. If it engages but just sits there buzzing turn it off quick (you would anyway) as this would indicate a seized engine for whatever reason. If it spins the engine then all should be well.
Try moving by hand first.

Good luck with it.

 

[uHu]

High revving on these is most frequently the turbo giving in. That leads to free flow of engine oil into the combustion, giving you like 2000 HP, and the engine breaking down, e.g. breaking or bending a rod.

 

[jibberjabber]

HiStar . Thanks for your reply.
He seems to think he coasted to a stop and thinks smell might have been the clutch. Gearbox is off and clutch is in a poor state and looks burnt. He does remember the engine suddenly revving really high before the bang. It could be the clutch giving up.
Im going to try cranking the engine via crank pulley bolt but as im no expert on diesel wasnt sure if this was possible due to compression. Is there a way to reduce this as of course there are no spark plugs to remove?
Im not at home so have limited tools but wondered what size crank bolt is as i can't get in to measure.
Thanks again.

Hi, Sorry to read about you problem, no one needs the hassle.

The crankshaft pulley bolt is 32mm.

Good luck.

 

[StarCruiser]

High revving on these is most frequently the turbo giving in. That leads to free flow of engine oil into the combustion, giving you like 2000 HP, and the engine breaking down, e.g. breaking or bending a rod.

I was hoping this wasn’t the case but it’s one possibility. The description didn’t seem to fit this scenario.

If there’s oil in the sump then it could be good news. Dip the oil.
You can also check for this by removing the intake tubing from the front of the turbo and inspecting the fan and feeling for play in the turbo by lifting the shaft. A tiny bit is good, a lot is not.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Stanna]

Thanks guys.
Im off to get a socket for the crank. I cant crank the engine as transmission has been removed (not checked yet but can i mount the starter without the transmission?
Checked clutch again and its a real mess - burnt and has melted in places to the pressure plate. Big chunks out of the friction plate. Im guessing the smoke was this.
Ive managed to turn the engine slightly by hand and guess compression is stopping it going further (fingers crossed).
Not sure the turbo blowing would burn the clutch out but welcome to advise further.
Any thoughts as to why the clutch burning out could stop the engine cranking over?
Really appreciate your help fellas.

 

[Stanna]

Well engine is locked. Turn 1/8th of a turn then stuck solid.
Checking for hydrolock but i think its deceased.

 

[Shayne]

What i picture (without qualification) is a bust piston ring jamming .

 

[StarCruiser]

Hmmm, have you checked for any possible bits of the clutch jamming around the flywheel?

Assuming there are none, next step is to remove the rocker cover and see if anything is amiss under there. Next thing drain oil and drop the sump. Then remove the head to see what’s occurred. It’s worth checking the condition of the turbo and the oil that comes out when you drain it.

So far we know the engine has a problem. We don’t know what that is or what has caused it. Once these two are known and repair has been ruled economical or uneconomical then you’ll know the answer to your question.

One thing, you said the cam belt was ok. Is it certain that teeth have not been stripped from it? Is it tight? It’s also worth checking the turbo to begin to rule things out.

Where abouts are you located in case another member can lend a hand?

 

[chapel gate]

Crank failure.

 

[stumog]

Yeah we had one go on a 100 in the workshop I used to work in.

This was caused by oil starvation due to poor oil filter.

 

[jibberjabber]

turn the engine slightly by hand and guess compression is stopping it going further

There is not enough compression to stop you turning the motor over by hand, I turned mine over and over by hand when I checked the valve clearances, so you may be right when you say it's locked, but the big question is (as more eminent members have stated before me) what is causing the lock, it could be the cheapest smallest part in the engine but burried deep inside, so Watson it's a case of time, deduction and skinned knuckles, and some cursing, and cursing.

Keep us posted, I for one am intrigued.

Your in the best place for help in the LCC, even if it's only advice and not physical help.

 

[Stanna]

Thanks guys. I will probably be leaving for the UK before I get too the cause but it looks serious and thats what I wanted to confirm before he pays for expensive fault diagnosis. I told him hes probably looking at a recon engine as the easiest fix. Do they still export engines from Japan? I know they used to import them into the UK as the Japs had to change engines at 30k miles under their emission laws (well they used too).
Given the size of the engine bay they are still a bitch to work on. Everything is buried beneath something else ha ha.
Is there a chance its hydrolocked following turbo failure? I was going to remove the Injectors to see if this might be the case.

 

[jibberjabber]

I was going to remove the Injectors to see if this might be the case.

Well you can't make it much worse.

I think, when it came to Land Cruisers the Japs export the whole car as removing the engine and fitting a new one would be more expensive than the car is worth. My first 80 was a Jap import, I'm on my fifth LC at the mo, current one is a 100.

I'll second the "bitch to work on" comment when it comes to the 100, considering the size of the car, and some of the design flaws, I.E fitting things to the chassis then mounting the body on top, so you can't get to the items, like the top of the rear hydraulic rams for one example. But I wouldn't have anything else.

 

[jibberjabber]

Yeah we had one go on a 100 in the workshop I used to work in.

This was caused by oil starvation due to poor oil filter.

Yeh, theres a lot to say for OEM, I will only use OEM.

 

[StarCruiser]

I doubt it would be hydro locked unless it got flooded through entering deep water.
Have you dipped the engine oil?
Have you drained the engine oil?
Where is the vehicle located?

 

[jibberjabber]

I doubt it would be hydro locked unless it got flooded through entering deep water.
Have you dipped the engine oil?
Have you drained the engine oil?
Where is the vehicle located?[/QUO

Sorry, haven't quite got the hang of this replying yet :-(

 

[jibberjabber]

I doubt it would be hydro locked unless it got flooded through entering deep water.
Have you dipped the engine oil?
Have you drained the engine oil?
Where is the vehicle located?

Hi StarCruiser,

I don't think Stanna is in the UK at the moment, and I don't think the Cruiser is either as he said, "Thanks guys. I will probably be leaving for the UK before I get too the cause" so we may never get to know the outcome, hope we do though it's intriguing.

It's better than a good detective novel and almost as good as Harry Potter.