JB's rusty lumps

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Guest

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Yes JB they are the remains of the bump stops less rubber bits, and yes new
ones are best bought from Milner.
I am amazed that you even considered undoing the bolts without soaking them
in WD40 or similar for a week first. A while ago in a posting about your
front roll bar I advised that you should soak all bolts etc under the 80
for a week before you start the job. Others have often commented that it is
always advisable to do the same, one posting even being in the past week
referring to Julian's regular mantra to do it.
So you have been told enough and now you will pay the price you bad lad.
These bolts (which go into captive threads within the chassis side member
for those not familiar with them) are the most difficult to get at if you
have to remove the thread stub. To drill them out you have to drop the axle
to physically get a drill in there, not a job you will relish. (Though as
no expert on lifted suspension, for all I know you may have some extra
space between axle and chassis). You can drill them if you have a right
angle chuck drive attachment or possibly a flex drive shaft, but neither
are good to align a drill plumb parallel to the threads for a clean
extraction without damage on one side of the thread. Before you try
anything, to get them well soaked in WD40, take the wheel off and you will
find a small rectangular plug in an inspection hole above the studs. Once
off you can get some stuff in there, but remember that there is a
strengthening web inside there which restricts your arc of squirt as it were.
A parallel jawed Mole wrench on the stub may get it out before you try
drilling, but not easy as the chassis member is a curved concave here. A
pencil flame gas pen on the stub itself to warm it followed by a quenching
in cold water may also crack the rust too. If the stub is too short you may
be able to fit a piece of 3 mm strip (25mm X say 50mm) over it after
drilling an oversized hole to go over the stub. Then arc weld the plate to
the stub and twist it out with an adjustable spanner. The heat from the
welding usually is enough to make the difference using this method. Above
all, when you next go under to move a bolt/stud/nut after soaking in WD40,
twist it quarter turn out then twist it back in nearly as much, and repeat
the back/forward motion all the way till the thread is undone. (The
plumber's freezer as detailed on the 80scool list this weekend will not be
the answer here either). When you finally get to put any threads together
underneath the 80, always put some copper grease etc. on the threads.
Rust shows no favour to foul a job up, be it on a Lada or Toyota.
So there ;o) - but I wish you the best of luck with the job however you
do it, it will be no fun.
Cheers
Jon
Grand Union Canal
'92 HZJ80 ex UN surplus from Bosnia
 
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Hey Jon Jon Jon
Me rusty lumps you say. Thanks for the advice and |I do detect a smirk in
your voice as you wrote that. Once a gob shit etc etc. Will he ever learn I
hear others say well YES I will eventually. I felt like a right (twit) cant
really use the words to express but that will do I think. I know you did
warn me but I thought that I could do it and being the smart (twit) I am, I
had a go and every thing broke on me. Well thats a lesson and a half. There
is not a hope of me trying to do the fixing myself, ill leave it into TOY
and then bite my lip when he hands me the bill. You say get it out with a
jaw , not a hope. You have to remember my luck, the bolt snapped flush to
the chassis, now I coulden't have it any other way now could I.. Now Jon
stop with the welding and all that crack. Sure is'nt it only a couple of
weeks ago I found out what a torque wrench was and then went and bought one.
Maybe ill have to look into getting a welding course under my belt or inmy
case under my Cruiser. Now will yea stop with all the tech stuff Im a
simple guy who before I joined the list knew there was an engine under the
bonnet and that was that, every thing else was like the galaxy one big
endless mistery. That has changed but I still need to explore this galaxy
called the Cruiser. You say drop the axel so cool and calmly, just gives me
heart tremours just thinking about it. But seriously you know I value all
the info you give and it is as usual saved in my Cruiser file. Just while I
have attention at the moment what kind of wrenches and tools do you, been
there, did that, worn the T-shirt guys use. I am, will have to change my
idea of tools after losing skin with my top of the range Argus sockets.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT Ireland
 
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Guest
JB Wrote...
Thanks for the advice and |I do detect a smirk in
your voice as you wrote that. Once a gob shit etc etc. Will he ever learn I
hear others say well YES I will eventually.
SNIP
No you are wrong JB, I am not into this to smirk at others problems, its
not my style, and remember my professional job is to train people and its a
natural will to help that motivates me to reply. I always try and give an
explanation of how to get out of the problem too you may have noticed. I
don't crow at other's misfortune, I have been there too.
But don't let the Toy dealer do the repair. I am sure their Yaris mechanic
has not been trained in 12 year old rusted stud extraction technique. They
are fitters JB, they remove and fit parts, they don't do make-do-and-mend
repairs. You must find that back street 4X4 engineer, plant fitter or agric
machinery engineer we have all told you to find in your town. Whatever you
do and whoever else tries, remember that you should be soaking the studs in
WD40 daily till the job is tackled. Broken off flush it will have to be
drilled out, you could do it, its not rocket science my friend, but needs
to be done slowly deliberately and carefully. If all else fails then tack
weld the new bump stop mounting bracket to the chassis. It will do no harm
to the strength of the chassis.
Cheers
Jon
Grand Union Canal
'92 HZJ80 ex UN surplus from Bosnia
 
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Guest

Guest
Hey Jon C-W
No need to tell me about your honest and factual attidude towards helping
people like me the ------.
Sure havn't you been doing it since day one with the welcome you gave and
all the support since then.
Your credentials are impecable in my book. I know you dont and wont feel
anything other than pity in a nice way for (would be) machanics like myself.
Jon as I have said before I have to slag myself before someone else does,
its the Irish sense of humour.
Like I told you before I do not, will not take things to heart and I do like
a good bit of banter.
Jon your last post had the advice in it that I needed as usual to get over
this tragic, skin tearing event.
Yesterday I went down to the guy (The Welder) and it will fix it today. I
was able to explain it to him as if I knew what I was talking about, great
that unless Im asked some arkward question, then Im caught.
He has a pit which I dont and all the proper tools and said he will have to
put the cruiser over this to get the leverage to drill and open the other
(will not open for JB nuts).
I know ther are things that i can do or should be able to do and the list of
them is growing.
But I have phyisical limitations ,no not the thick head or the fat belly but
the bad back which limits me some what.
Once the pain hits I loose all interest and could be up for attempted
Cruiser Homicide.
I dont know what the sentence would be but it could be 1 to 10 hours of hard
labour having to use a wrench, god knows I dont want that.
There are a few sayings from the list that are imbedded in me thick skull
and one of them is that one of your (The Yaris Machanic) and your dead
right.
I spent about a half an hour with Toy yesterday waiting to find out the cost
of the bump stops for me rear end , with him looking at the screen saying
stuff like hum ,hum is that it, maybe thats it. Well he didn't find them on
his diagram and gave up telling me he will phone me when he finds them, a
phone call never to be made. I just wanted to compare them to the cost at
Milners. He did tell me that because my Cruiser is a UK model it is much
more prown to rust than the Irish ones because of all the salt you guys use
on your roads, it should be kept for the fish and chips YES. So me nuts
should be better by tomorrow I hope.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT Ireland
 
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Guest

Guest
"John Byrne" <[Email address removed]>
You have to remember my luck, the bolt snapped flush to
the chassis, now I coulden't have it any other way now could I.
=> Well, IIRC there's a little tool that can help you take that headless
bolt off. It
looks like a cork-screw (or a tapping bit) but with left-hand thread
(counter-lock wise = screw-in)... So you drill a little hole in the center
of the headless bolt, and you screw-in the tapping bit and when it cannot go
further in, it should start turning the bolt off, with the help of course of
the ton of WD40 you've been spraying for a week ;o)
I hope I'm clear.
Lio
 
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**WARNING**
Good idea from Herbert but be careful!!!
These stud extractors can themselves snap and if they do you will NEVER
drill them out as they are made of hardened steel.
Pete
HEBERT Lionel wrote:
 
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Guest

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Thread extractors - not to be confused with stud extractors.
We had this debate a little back - Renate's broken wheel studs.
The consensus being that their use is fraught with perils - particularly for the unwary / inexperienced. They are - in my opinion - to be avoided. There are better and safer ways of getting out broken studs / bolts.
John - if you intend working on your landcruiser you should invest in good quality spanners / ring and open ended and sockets - I prefer hexagonal as opposed to bi - hexagonal ( i.e. 12 sided ). These should all be good makes like Britool, Williams, Gordon, Snap On, Bergen. Cheap stuff bends and breaks or rounds your nuts off !!
I have picked up lots of tools from Garage sales , auctions , E-bay , there is no need to buy all new stuff.
A good propane blow torch is useful for freeing off seized components. Its use on any vehicle has to be done with care and have a fire extinguisher handy.
It is also handy for toasting the top of Creme Brule if you enjoy cooking.
Patience and preperation are the best ways - plenty of WD40 a few days in advance always pays dividends.
Finally there is no shame in wearing gloves. Often when undoing stubborn parts in close proximity to knucle skinning objects I wear some thick rigger gloves. I would rather wear these for a few minutes than a few plasters for days.
Are you able to come and partake in our off road day ?
Regards Gareth Jones.
 
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Hi Peter,
Agreed, been there, done that.
Usually the best trick is to drill it out using the biggest drill that you
can use without it damaging the actual thread.
Then use a tap of the correct diameter and thread to tap out what remains.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi Peter,
Agreed, been there, done that.
Usually the best trick is to drill it out using the biggest drill that you
can use without it damaging the actual thread.
Then use a tap of the correct diameter and thread to tap out what remains.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Thanks for all the advice about my rusty nuts. I have now got new nuts
fitted. My guy tried to get the nut off but failed untill he got his angle
grinder to it.
The nut that was broken in the chassis took him a while to drill out and
then retread the frame, but he did it alright.
I also got him to weld the last holes in the exhaust, he did say that I will
get about a year out of it but thats about it.
The holes he repaired were in the rear section and he thought he could get
that section off.
It was only after he had the bolts off that he tried to get the exchaust
flange over the cross member, but not a hope.
It would not fit over it and he had to weld it there and then.
How do they get them on if you cant get them off.
Anyway thats me fixed untill the next thing and again thanks for the advice
.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
 
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Guest

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Hi Gareth
I too have found that the 12 sided spanners are crap and will plan to
replace all mine soon. That sounds good yea, all mine, all six of them.
Me with a blow torch are you mad, the fire brigade would need to be at my
side.
I would not trust myself with a match under the cruiser never mind a blow
torch. Iv had enough of cheepie tools ill be going for good stuff from now
on.
The day out when is it. I am going for a break during the kids midterm
before I break.
I cant really justify hundreds of euros and days of travelling to go on a
fun day out with you guys on its own so ill have to come up with some thing
hopfully.
So if you come up with a day tell me and then well you never know.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT Ireland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gareth Jones" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] re: JB's rusty lumps
Thread extractors - not to be confused with stud extractors.
We had this debate a little back - Renate's broken wheel studs.
The consensus being that their use is fraught with perils - particularly for
the unwary / inexperienced. They are - in my opinion - to be avoided. There
are better and safer ways of getting out broken studs / bolts.
John - if you intend working on your landcruiser you should invest in good
quality spanners / ring and open ended and sockets - I prefer hexagonal as
opposed to bi - hexagonal ( i.e. 12 sided ). These should all be good makes
like Britool, Williams, Gordon, Snap On, Bergen. Cheap stuff bends and
breaks or rounds your nuts off !!
I have picked up lots of tools from Garage sales , auctions , E-bay , there
is no need to buy all new stuff.
A good propane blow torch is useful for freeing off seized components. Its
use on any vehicle has to be done with care and have a fire extinguisher
handy.
It is also handy for toasting the top of Creme Brule if you enjoy cooking.
Patience and preperation are the best ways - plenty of WD40 a few days in
advance always pays dividends.
Finally there is no shame in wearing gloves. Often when undoing stubborn
parts in close proximity to knucle skinning objects I wear some thick rigger
gloves. I would rather wear these for a few minutes than a few plasters for
days.
Are you able to come and partake in our off road day ?
Regards Gareth Jones.

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