just wondering

G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Watching a program the other day and it has prompted me to ask a few questions.
It was about the new Corvette which has a 7L V8 engine.
Now it appears that the engine only weighs in at 200kgs all in being mostly made form Alu.
They said it can get 10 miles per litre of fuel on a long drive.
It has dry sump tecnology which pumps oil all the time to the engine.
Because their point was while cornering as the car leans, it can result in oil starvation to the engine if it relied on a normal oil pan configuration.
So as we know our cruiser lean a lot at corners/ roundabouts etc, so does this mean theri could be a slight oil starvation for small periods of time as the oil moves to one side of the pan or the other.
If this engine they have only weighs in at 200kgs could an engine like that ssomeday be used for the cruiser.
At 10miles per litre and having all that power would it suit a cruiser, there must be a reason why it has not been fitted or at least something like it.
Can you fix a head gasket on a Alu engine.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
So
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi John,
Years ago I had a Hillman Imp, that had an aluminium head, in fact I think the whole engine may have been aly, the head warped and blew the gasket three times and had to be skimmed each time, I had fitted a Neil Davis racing conversion to it which may have been part of my problems (when it went, it went like s***t of a shovel) but it didn't 'go' most of the time, it was the most unreliable car I ever owned. pretty though!
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 80 series, 110000 miles, custom winch bumper and winch, Ray Dadd rocksliders and soon to be sliding drawers in the back.
----- Original Message -----
From: john byrne
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: [ELCO] just wondering
Hi Guys
Can you fix a head gasket on a Alu engine.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
So
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Chas
Like I say I have to ask when the questions wont leave my head.
I know there may be a trade off somewhere alone the line but just wondering if a fancy engine or something like it could be used in an 80 series.
I had a visit from a guy last week , he was passing my house and saw the cruiser and felt he had to knock in and have a chat.
Never saw him before but we had a chat about our cruisers and he had procomp (I think ) shocks and low profile tyres with 18 inch rims.
He said that the handling was better on road with less sway not much use off road though.
I have the OME set up and while its better than the OEM set up its still lacking at corners with still too much body roll.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
----- Original Message -----
From: Chas
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] just wondering
Hi John,
Years ago I had a Hillman Imp, that had an aluminium head, in fact I think the whole engine may have been aly, the head warped and blew the gasket three times and had to be skimmed each time, I had fitted a Neil Davis racing conversion to it which may have been part of my problems (when it went, it went like s***t of a shovel) but it didn't 'go' most of the time, it was the most unreliable car I ever owned. pretty though!
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 80 series, 110000 miles, custom winch bumper and winch, Ray Dadd rocksliders and soon to be sliding drawers in the back.
----- Original Message -----
From: john byrne
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: [ELCO] just wondering
Hi Guys
Can you fix a head gasket on a Alu engine.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
So
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G

Guest

Guest
John
I think you have to remember that the cruiser is really a "for the 3rd world" vehicle for which simplicity and reliability are the key factors.
Yes it has had a turbo, air-conditioning and comfy seats added for Europe, Oz and the USA; but it really owes more to "tractor" engineering that "car" ditto. The agricultural element rather appeals to me, and I think it is amazing that it is as comfortable as it is, but I still think "tractor" every time I drive it - possibly because I have a manual and therefore I have a slightly closer everyday relationship with the mechanical bits and pieces. As an aside I know plenty of people with Land Rover 110 County diesels, and *all* of them absolutely dread long journeys since they know that they will emerge deafened, shaken to pieces and with backache.
Toyota probably could develop an aluminium block with a higher power to weight ratio - but why bother? They already make a petrol-engined version for those with more money than sense, and for "3rd world" applications power is not an issue anyway. And doesn't the 200 series come with a V8 twin turbo diesel or something (way out of my price range)???
I don't believe 10 miles/litre from a 7Litre engine - that's 45 mpg! Well, maybe if they drove at 30 mph - and also the Corvette is lighter and more aerodynamic than an 80 series - but realistically the Corvette does well to return the low 20s mpg if you are feather-footed. (My colleagues in our Detroit office went through a muscle-car phase a few years back, and one had a Corvette ... in which he managed to get done for speeding in Montana where there are no speed limits!)
As for oil starvation: the advice if you are going mountaineering is always to make sure that your oil is well topped up for exactly this reason. I've not looked at the 80's pan design, but I've always assumed that at least some of that 10 or so litres of oil in there is excess to cope with exactly this problem. I fairly regularly take mine on pretty extreme slopes (when "farming" here) and the oil pressure never seems to be bothered by either side-to-side or fore-and-aft angles that are pretty scary. Again, vertical clearance is probably not available under the engine in a low-slung Corvette to fit a deep pan, whereas in a TLC one can shape the oil pan to deal with the problem.
I suppose you can skim an aluminium head. The problem with aluminium though is that, unlike steel, it doesn't have a well-defined "yield stress" below which it stays the same shape; but rather it has a tendency to "creep" under even moderate loads, so not only has it have a greater tendency to deform in the first place but it will continue to go on doing so even when you have - supposedly - relieved the stresses in it. I'm not a great fan of subtracting weight from the mechanical bits of cars since, in my opinion, you also tend to subtract reliability. Most of the weight gain in modern cars comes from the crap you can do without: electric window winders and powered seats, a/c units, trendy dashboards, power sunroofs, power steering, etc etc. It all adds up. I remember talking to a RR engineer a while back and he pointed out that the "body in white" of their cars, which means just the steel bodywork, weighed about 280kg, or about 11% of the final weight.
Incidentally I proved last week (when pulling ivy off our barn) that (a) my exhaust is gas-tight and (b) an engine won't run with the exhaust blocked! I reversed it downhill into an earth back, so buried my rather low-hanging exhaust, and stalled it. And it wouldn't restart. And we faced uphill.
After a minute's pondering it dawned on me that the starter would probably haul it out of there in low range 1st gear, and so it did - and started the engine at the same time. But it's a good thing it's a manual, as I couldn't have done that with an auto box. Moral of the story: if you're as stupid as I am get a manual gearbox!
Ho hum, better do some work
CB
________________________________________
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On Behalf Of john byrne
Sent: 16 April 2008 09:52
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] just wondering
Hi Guys
Watching a program the other day and it has prompted me to ask a few questions.
It was about the new Corvette which has a 7L V8 engine.
Now it appears that the engine only weighs in at 200kgs all in being mostly made form Alu.
They said it can get 10 miles per litre of fuel on a long drive.
It has dry sump tecnology which pumps oil all the time to the engine.
Because their point was=A0while cornering=A0as the car leans, it can result in oil starvation to the engine if it relied on a normal oil pan configuration.
=A0So as we know our cruiser lean a lot at corners/ roundabouts etc, so does this mean theri could be a slight oil starvation for small periods of time as the oil moves to one side of the pan or the other.
If this engine they have only weighs in at 200kgs=A0 could an engine like that ssomeday be used for the cruiser.
At 10miles per litre and having all that power would it suit a cruiser, there must be a reason why it has not been fitted or at least something like it.
=A0Can you fix a head gasket on a Alu engine.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
So =A0
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G

Guest

Guest
Toyota already build a 380hp all-aluminium V8. It's the 3UR-FE, and you
can get it in the Landcruiser 200 in the States. They're still using
the iron block 2UZ in other markets though.
As far as oil starvation while cornering goes, I reckon you'd struggle
to generate the same g-force round a roundabout in a Landcruiser as you
would in a Corvette, at least without ending up on the roof, so it's not
likely to be problem.
Cheers
Paul
1996 FZJ80
--
Paul Harper
[Email address removed]
----- Original message -----
From: "Christopher Bell" <[Email address removed]>
To: [Email address removed]
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:55:54 +0100
Subject: RE: [ELCO] just wondering
John
I think you have to remember that the cruiser is really a "for the 3rd
world" vehicle for which simplicity and reliability are the key factors.
Yes it has had a turbo, air-conditioning and comfy seats added for
Europe, Oz and the USA; but it really owes more to "tractor" engineering
that "car" ditto. The agricultural element rather appeals to me, and I
think it is amazing that it is as comfortable as it is, but I still
think "tractor" every time I drive it - possibly because I have a manual
and therefore I have a slightly closer everyday relationship with the
mechanical bits and pieces. As an aside I know plenty of people with
Land Rover 110 County diesels, and *all* of them absolutely dread long
journeys since they know that they will emerge deafened, shaken to
pieces and with backache.
Toyota probably could develop an aluminium block with a higher power to
weight ratio - but why bother? They already make a petrol-engined
version for those with more money than sense, and for "3rd world"
applications power is not an issue anyway. And doesn't the 200 series
come with a V8 twin turbo diesel or something (way out of my price
range)???
I don't believe 10 miles/litre from a 7Litre engine - that's 45 mpg!
Well, maybe if they drove at 30 mph - and also the Corvette is lighter
and more aerodynamic than an 80 series - but realistically the Corvette
does well to return the low 20s mpg if you are feather-footed. (My
colleagues in our Detroit office went through a muscle-car phase a few
years back, and one had a Corvette ... in which he managed to get done
for speeding in Montana where there are no speed limits!)
As for oil starvation: the advice if you are going mountaineering is
always to make sure that your oil is well topped up for exactly this
reason. I've not looked at the 80's pan design, but I've always assumed
that at least some of that 10 or so litres of oil in there is excess to
cope with exactly this problem. I fairly regularly take mine on pretty
extreme slopes (when "farming" here) and the oil pressure never seems to
be bothered by either side-to-side or fore-and-aft angles that are
pretty scary. Again, vertical clearance is probably not available
under the engine in a low-slung Corvette to fit a deep pan, whereas in a
TLC one can shape the oil pan to deal with the problem.
I suppose you can skim an aluminium head. The problem with aluminium
though is that, unlike steel, it doesn't have a well-defined "yield
stress" below which it stays the same shape; but rather it has a
tendency to "creep" under even moderate loads, so not only has it have a
greater tendency to deform in the first place but it will continue to go
on doing so even when you have - supposedly - relieved the stresses in
it. I'm not a great fan of subtracting weight from the mechanical
bits of cars since, in my opinion, you also tend to subtract
reliability. Most of the weight gain in modern cars comes from the crap
you can do without: electric window winders and powered seats, a/c
units, trendy dashboards, power sunroofs, power steering, etc etc. It
all adds up. I remember talking to a RR engineer a while back and he
pointed out that the "body in white" of their cars, which means just the
steel bodywork, weighed about 280kg, or about 11% of the final weight.
Incidentally I proved last week (when pulling ivy off our barn) that (a)
my exhaust is gas-tight and (b) an engine won't run with the exhaust
blocked! I reversed it downhill into an earth back, so buried my rather
low-hanging exhaust, and stalled it. And it wouldn't restart. And we
faced uphill.
After a minute's pondering it dawned on me that the starter would
probably haul it out of there in low range 1st gear, and so it did - and
started the engine at the same time. But it's a good thing it's a
manual, as I couldn't have done that with an auto box. Moral of the
story: if you're as stupid as I am get a manual gearbox!
Ho hum, better do some work
CB
________________________________________
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of john byrne
Sent: 16 April 2008 09:52
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] just wondering
Hi Guys
Watching a program the other day and it has prompted me to ask a few
questions.
It was about the new Corvette which has a 7L V8 engine.
Now it appears that the engine only weighs in at 200kgs all in being
mostly made form Alu.
They said it can get 10 miles per litre of fuel on a long drive.
It has dry sump tecnology which pumps oil all the time to the engine.
Because their point was while cornering as the car leans, it can result
in oil starvation to the engine if it relied on a normal oil pan
configuration.
So as we know our cruiser lean a lot at corners/ roundabouts etc, so
does this mean theri could be a slight oil starvation for small periods
of time as the oil moves to one side of the pan or the other.
If this engine they have only weighs in at 200kgs could an engine like
that ssomeday be used for the cruiser.
At 10miles per litre and having all that power would it suit a cruiser,
there must be a reason why it has not been fitted or at least something
like it.
Can you fix a head gasket on a Alu engine.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
So
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hey,

I have an LS2 from a corvette in my challenge truck- the LS2 is a 6.0l
variant of the same engine as the LS7 (the 7l from the Z06 corvette below)-
same block, same heads, same intake, same ECu- basically the same apart from
the stroke. It's mated to a 4speed yank overdrive auto box.

dimensionally the engine is almost exactly the same size as a rover 8- it's
around 4cm higher but a touch narrower across the block. It would slip into
the frankly massive engine bay of a landcruiser without any trouble. My
engine weighed 204kg wet with no gearbox- a rover V8 wet weighs 189kg so not
a lot in it really- I would guess the 4.2tdi straight six weighs well over
350kg in a landcruiser. The whole engine is ali apart from the rotating
assembly- even the sump is ali which is a bit of problem- I have already
holed the sump once as it is so brittle- I am having a Steel sump made up at
the moment to take the knocks whilst off road- my ali sump guard didn't even
help!

I looked at dry sumping the engine to prevent oil starvation but to be
honest I've only really suffered oil starvation twice- both whilst being
winched up near verticle cliff faces. However dry sumping is not as easy as
evreyone thinks- you need to have extra oilways as you no longer get splash
lubrication from the Crank- you need to make up for this by spraying the
undersides of the pistons ideally- not the easiest thing in the world and
not really worth it when you can get an engine already dry sumped.
realistically off road unless you are into competition work I can't see oil
starvation being an issue- I've never come across it during green laning or
expedition work. In the comp truck I got round the problem by using a
"pre-oiler"- these are designed to bring the oil pressure up quickly as you
start the engine and are basically a large cylinder with a sprung plate in-
when engine pressure drops below a certain level the cylinder releases oil
into the oiling system and can cover 30 seconds or so of the oil pickup
benig out of the oil in the sump. Frankly if you are at such an extreme
angle for any longer then you are better turning the engine off as your
winch has probably failed or you are wedged against a tree or similar.

As to fitting to a landcruiser this would be surprisingly easy and I would
suggest using a diesel cruiser for the conversion. Basically you would get
yourself an LSx (being either an LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7 or LS9) secondhand from
the states- expect to pay =A32k landed and cleared, then you would bolt it up
to either the AFbox or using a yank box bolt it to the landcruiser transfer
box. Personally I'd keep it simple and bolt the LSx to the auto box from the
cruiser- reckon it probably has enough strength to cope as long as it iwas
in good nick. the AF box in thecruiser is most deinfnitely far stronger than
the ZF boxes in range rovers which are only rated to 280lb/ft or 320lb/ft
depending no variant. www.marks4wd.com are the guys to talk to- not great on
customer serrvice but do lots of products. they also sell replacement engine
mounts as well as exhaust pipes to fit etc. Id use the diesel cruiser as you
woun'd thave to worry to much about splicing into a wiring loom- I would
used the existsing LSx ECU using LSedit to program the ECU and keep it
pretty much separate to the cruiser electronics. Alternatively you could
megasquirt It and go totally custom (although no one can translate the
magnetic timing ring in the LSx to Megasquirt). I ended up fitting my LS2 to
a custom 4L80e (built to 900lbft torque specs) and then bolting this to a
land rover transfer box (on the grounds that they are cheap and plentiful to
replace) which then drive a set of chopped up Unimog portal axles. Works
well and with 400bhp on tap with gearing that tops out at 110mph it really
shifts too- 0-60 in around 5 secs or so! Makes quite a nice noise too!

Head gasket is no different to an iron block, although to be honest the LSx
range of engines are so blooming amazing that you probably will never have
to do the head gasket unless you overheat the engine.

HTH
JIm

From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of john byrne
Sent: 16 April 2008 10:52
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] just wondering

Hi Guys
Watching a program the other day and it has prompted me to ask a few
questions.
It was about the new Corvette which has a 7L V8 engine.
Now it appears that the engine only weighs in at 200kgs all in being mostly
made form Alu.
They said it can get 10 miles per litre of fuel on a long drive.
It has dry sump tecnology which pumps oil all the time to the engine.
Because their point was while cornering as the car leans, it can result in
oil starvation to the engine if it relied on a normal oil pan configuration.
So as we know our cruiser lean a lot at corners/ roundabouts etc, so does
this mean theri could be a slight oil starvation for small periods of time
as the oil moves to one side of the pan or the other.
If this engine they have only weighs in at 200kgs could an engine like that
ssomeday be used for the cruiser.
At 10miles per litre and having all that power would it suit a cruiser,
there must be a reason why it has not been fitted or at least something like
it.
Can you fix a head gasket on a Alu engine.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
So
 
G

Guest

Guest
James,
Which "pre-oiler" did you fit? I seem to remember there is one
supplied by Agriemach but I am not sure if it is up to the job.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
 
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