KZJ 73 - Priming fuel / bleeding not working...

loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
Finished putting everything back together and went to prime the system.

No amount of pumping on the fuel filter pump seems to work.

I decided to change the filter as I had one and I wanted to see the state of the diesel. It was -17c last night and -10 as I was working today. No problem there, I was expecting it to be more viscous or something, but all good.

If I undo an injector pipe, I'd hope to pump until fuel came out, replacing the air in the pipes. Unfortunately nothing.

If I take the line from the filter to the engine off and pump, I also get no fuel I can feel air being blown and if I press my finger to the pipe it is sucked in slightly by a vacuum (not strong) if I pump the pump.

Am I missing something obvious, or being stupid or is something not working correctly?
 

Shayne

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Feb 2, 2013
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Pull the return pipe off at the tank and blow compressed air into the fuel filler cap doing your best to pressurize the tank while someone turns the key to start the engine . Ideally it's a 3 man job so you can refit the return pipe as soon as fuel comes through .
 
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loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
Pull the return pipe off at the tank and blow compressed air into the fuel filler cap doing your best to pressurize the tank while someone turns the key to start the engine . Ideally it's a 3 man job so you can refit the return pipe as soon as fuel comes through .
This sounds like a really good solution, unfortunately I don't have a compressor. I could use one in a garage if I could drive it.

I wonder if I could jimmy something up with 5L big water/coke bottle, floor stand pump and some tubing. What kind of psi do you need to get would you think?
 

iwan_t24

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I am in wales
Mar 28, 2011
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Be careful how much pressure you put down the return... I did the same thing and when it started there was soo much pressure that the engine red lined and wouldnt stop by the key. I had to use a plank of wood to stop the f**ker! I changed the filter head for an 80 series one and it was fine!! The filter primer is the culprit.
 
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loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
Do you have to remove much to get to the return pipe? Also wondering if inner tube cut to cover the filler hole and floor pump will work.
 
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Shayne

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It shouldn't take much pressure your only siphoning fuel in reverse really , i guess a bicycle pump and some gaffa tape might do it .

There's 3 steel pipes coming off the tank towards the front of your truck just pull the rubber off there , the steel pipes are known to corrode away so try not to bend them or anything .

For me finding enough pair of hands would be the hardest bit .
 
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GC_Aus

New Member
I am in australia
Dec 16, 2017
22
6
3
Australia
"If I take the line from the filter to the engine off and pump, I also get no fuel I can feel air being blown and if I press my finger to the pipe it is sucked in slightly by a vacuum (not strong) if I pump the pump."

this would suggest the hand pump is not working correctly & the air is returning towards the tank. There is usually a couple of valves in the hand fuel pump to ensure it is acting as a one way primer etc.
You might want to check that & maybe clean out any crud that has built up in there. this same symptom has happened to me before with a Hilux primer pump - might be the same pump?

you could also try filling the filter before you prime the system so there is less air to be pulled through before you get to fuel - air is very hard to pump for those primer pumps.

"victims galore..." love it!
 

alexy

Active Member
I am in romania
Oct 2, 2015
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Romania
filter housing might let air in, not uncommon. had two filter housings that let air in.

Put a temporary transparent hose between filter and injection pump.
could simply suck air on that hose until diesel shows up and hopefully that would prime the manual pump.
those valves can get stuck, or you can add on the hose a one way valve bought separately.

start the engine, then troubleshoot the possible air in the pipes, that transparent hose will let you see what happens.
 
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loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
thanks for the responses guys, do you know if I can inspect the pump on the filter by simply unscrewing the screw at the top of the button, or does it come out completely?
 

loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
Ok I got it. Covered myself in diesel in the end, the misses was not keen.

Made a pump adapter from my syphon tubing (sorry beer making!) and an connector - which I created from one of the kids felt pens. I then connected this to the return pipe (rubber).

dump-a-pump.jpg


Mine also went to max revs, I couldn't work out the plank of wood concept so I disconnected the fuel line after the filter.

She runs so nicely now, I'll put a post up with some photos of the beast when I get a chance to go out and test. Need a bit more coolant I think first :)

Thanks again for all your help, hopefully anyone doing this in future will find all this info useful.
 
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Shayne

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Bingo :thumbup:

It happened to me after i removed painted and refitted the fuel tank . The solution was passed to me from another forum member (Starcruiser) who was thankfully traveling with us when my truck refused to start half way to Romania !

It's been fine ever since .
 

loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
For anyones reference it's best to pressurise the return pipe not the tank as otherwise diesel comes out the return pipe, at least on mine.

Bloody low oil light has come on now, and it's full of oil.

Hopefully the sensor is just busted, otherwise oil isn't getting back into the sump quick enough. Not sure what that would mean though?!
 

Ben

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Guru
I am in australia
Oct 13, 2010
6,033
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Melbourne, Australia
When I recently did the latest 1KZ engine conversion on my LJ78, after refitting the fuel tank I couldnt get fuel to the fuel filter to get it started. No amount of pumping on the primer would pull enough fuel through. :doh:

So I used a universal 12v fuel pump to pump fuel from the tank to the filter and got it running quite easily. I then removed the 12v pump and all was good. :shifty:
 

loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
So I used a universal 12v fuel pump to pump fuel from the tank to the filter and got it running quite easily. I then removed the 12v pump and all was good. :shifty:
It did cross my mind to take the fuel pump out the saab 900 I have here and do that, but I couldn't be bothered to clear the snow off it, the bike pump option seemed easier. Im thinking about just putting a marine bulb before the filter incase I ever need to do it again (or run out of fuel).
 
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GC_Aus

New Member
I am in australia
Dec 16, 2017
22
6
3
Australia
yep - as per Ben's experience as well - once you have it primed with another pump it will often keep going.

You could also use an oil extraction pump for this like the Pela 2000 - they're a good thing for removing oil/ fuel from many places
Screenshot from 2017-12-22 11-10-18.png
 
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GC_Aus

New Member
I am in australia
Dec 16, 2017
22
6
3
Australia
For anyones reference it's best to pressurise the return pipe not the tank as otherwise diesel comes out the return pipe, at least on mine.

Bloody low oil light has come on now, and it's full of oil.

Hopefully the sensor is just busted, otherwise oil isn't getting back into the sump quick enough. Not sure what that would mean though?!
this will be low oil pressure - not necessarily low oil.
check for leaks obvious & all breathers for blockages etc.
check the easy things first...

what was the last oil change like? - could it be possibly sludgy oil has reduced flow for the oil sump pump?
 

loco_ola

Active Member
I am in france
Oct 25, 2017
55
18
8
this will be low oil pressure - not necessarily low oil.
check for leaks obvious & all breathers for blockages etc.
check the easy things first...

what was the last oil change like? - could it be possibly sludgy oil has reduced flow for the oil sump pump?
From the diagrams I have and my beginner engineer brain, it looks like the oil level light on the KZJ is only a level indicator, there is a separate oil pressure gauge which has no lights.

Pressure on the oil gauge is it was before I changed the head (slightly low but ok) checked everything obvious on that, suspect I'm going to have to get the sump off again and deal with all that. But that can wait until summer cos I'm not doing that again in the snow!

The last oil change was ok and not sludgy at all, looked clean other than the clip I found in there when I took the sump off!

The level light seems to come on at random intervals.
 

GC_Aus

New Member
I am in australia
Dec 16, 2017
22
6
3
Australia
From the diagrams I have and my beginner engineer brain, it looks like the oil level light on the KZJ is only a level indicator, there is a separate oil pressure gauge which has no lights.

Pressure on the oil gauge is it was before I changed the head (slightly low but ok) checked everything obvious on that, suspect I'm going to have to get the sump off again and deal with all that. But that can wait until summer cos I'm not doing that again in the snow!

The last oil change was ok and not sludgy at all, looked clean other than the clip I found in there when I took the sump off!

The level light seems to come on at random intervals.
Ok yep that all makes sense - this is a 1KZTE motor? - 3.0 Turbo which is the same as the Hilux motor i have.
my first question here would be are you using the right oil? - perhaps you are chasing a gremlin you dont need to...
incorrect oil in a diesel will do all of these things so perhaps start with that & you might find the problem goes away.
You are in snow & winter obviously so given i use a 5w-40 oil in my Hilux year round you could probably be using the same grade unless you have high wear & maybe want to go up a grade to a 50 weight. Hmmm France - does it get "Norway cold" where you are or just down to say -5C? . 5W should be suitable but check your book compared to your local conditions - i dont think that engine can use a 0W oil unless you are at sub -30C.

the random oil light - is this when cornering or on hill climbs?
is it definitely the right dipstick? - sounds simple but i have seen people go to amazing troubles only to find some owner prior to them changed the stick for some reason... to check this do an oil change with a measured amount of oil per the book volume & then see where it is on the dipstick. My 1KZ takes approx 8Ltr as a reference.
burning oil? - again if the oil level is dropping then where is it going? - either out the exhaust or its on the ground.

I see you have done a lot of work to this car / engine so try not to be paranoid with it - "if it aint broke dont fix it" is a common saying. I would be aiming to get the car to a consistent reliability & let things settle down a bit since you have done the head etc.
Did you change the head because of an overheating? - if so then often the gunge that results from the overheating / head job can make the rings a bit sticky. they should free up but this too could cause the symptoms you have now.

the other thing..... " the clip I found in there" dont really like the sound of that - would you have a photo by chance?

just went & had a look at your other post - nice looking car dude!
 

Shayne

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Feb 2, 2013
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I can't find any truck history but are you sure the oil dipstick hasn't been swapped at some point ?

There's no oil pressure gauge or light on my KZJ90 or at least not one i'm aware of . If oil is getting low it usually lights up on a hill long before its any cause for concern . A boost leak will give you an engine check light .
 
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