Leisure Batteries

[Ben Stratford]

So, to run camping stuff im looking at a split charge relay to divert charge to 2 leisure batteries in the rear of the vehicle.

Can these be normal 95Ah batteries as per the front of the car or do they need to be leisure batteries? Whats the difference?

Would like to be able to swap All 4 around if needed as a contingency plan.

Thanks guys

 

[grantw]

Hi Ben,
Firstly are the batteries going to be inside the cabin? If so you need to be aware that whilst being charged nearly all batteries can "gas" which releases explosive hydrogen gas. Batteries such as optimas are less likely to do this but even in extreme cases of over voltage or high temps they can still release gas.

Secondly with the length of the cable and just a relay the batteries are never going to reach full charge due to the voltage drop along the cable if budget allows something like a ctek 250 does a much better job of this and would possibly allow you to get away with one battery instead of two due to it charging the battery fully.

Normal batteries aren't designed to be deeply discharged and don't really like being discharged too low. Doing this greatly shortens their life. A good leisure battery (they aren't all equal) allows you to use more charge out of the battery without damaging it.

 

[Chris]

I'd be surprised if you needed two. But really you need to work out what you are going to be running and generally for how long. I run an Optima Yellow in the back of my 80 and that will cope with standing for at least 2 days running the fridge, lighting, phone chargers etc without a problem. Remember that battery physics is hugely complex and IIRC once a battery reaches about 11.8 volts it's deemed to be discharged. Running it less than that is potentially damaging. AGM batteries cope better with this sort of regime and their voltage drop off is not quite so linear as wet cells. OK I have reached the limit of my battery knowledge. Nice thing about the AGM is that they can't spill. I'm with Grant. I'd use a boost DC/DC charger like the CTEK 250S. These use the charge from your alternator in a more productive way and manage the batteries better giving a longer life and better output.
Good thing about the Optimas is that the terminals are central so they aren't left / right handed and can be used more universally in times of trouble. Mount the DC/DC charger close to the leisure battery to cut down the length of thicker cable you need to run.

 

[Ben Stratford]

Great info thanks Guys. Yes, was thinking about mounting inside but not now the H bomb is a risk.
There may be room under the bonnet for another battery or two if i make a support shelf.
Can an optima be used as a starting battery?
Anyway, to be used to run a fridge freezer, charger & lights etc. I was also considering a water heater if feasible for a shower but dont know anything about this yet.
Also thinking about a solar panel if it can extend a 2 day charge significantly if the engine isnt required. Also need sun if course!

 

[Chris]

If you use a solar panel via a CTEK or similar then you could survive almost indefinitely with a bit of sun of course. If my battery is at 100% and I'm running the fridge and stuff whilst parked, the panel will keep pace with the demand and at the end of the say, the battery is still at 100%. Remember that fridges only tick in and out for about 25% of the time. If the sun is out, the panel will make that up whilst the fridge is resting. I have a Yellow inside the cargo area and I've never blown myself to pieces. These particular batteries can be mounted upside down. My understanding is that there's less venting too. Water wise, I fitted a heat exchanger to the heating system and a Kenlow pump so I didn't need the ending running to use the shower.

 

[Ben Stratford]

Loving the sound of the heat exchanger and that a solar panel will keep up with demand.
Need to start saving up now and decide how to configure the truck.
Thinking back seat removal and water tank installation and fridge freezer with all the power stuff and storage under a platform of some sort.

 

[ByronJ]

So, to run camping stuff im looking at a split charge relay to divert charge to 2 leisure batteries in the rear of the vehicle.

Can these be normal 95Ah batteries as per the front of the car or do they need to be leisure batteries? Whats the difference?

Would like to be able to swap All 4 around if needed as a contingency plan.

Thanks guys

A standard start battery will probably be knackered after a only few dozen discharges to 50% whereas a specialist deep cycle battery from someone like Lifeline will be good for over a 1,000 cycles of 50% discharge. However if you use a deep cycle battery to start your engine you will destroy the battery in seconds. So an AGM battery is a very good compromise.

Chris has already mentioned Optima, another battery make you could consider is the Odyssey Extreme range. I think these are superb batteries. They are rated to handle 400 discharge / charge cycles of 80% of their C10 capacity if charged at 14.7v. If you discharge to 50% of their capacity (when the battery voltage would be around around 12.2v) you will get a lot more than 400 cycles. Plus the Odyssey batteries would also be very happy to start your engine with no problem.

You need to charge at around 14.7v to get the best out of AGM batteries. They will happily charge at 14.2v but will only achieve about half the discharge/charge cycles. I have just tweaked my split charge system to charge at 14.7v (a simply process) and that is working well (so far...) but a DC-DC charger is a good solution as it allows you to have two entirely separate charging regimes. I.e. you can use (cheap) standard flooded batteries for starting and (expensive) AGM for your leisure needs and both will be charged properly and safely.

Looking at DC-DC chargers you might want to consider Sterling as well as Ctek. I have just bought the 30A version of one of these:

https://sterling-power.com/collecti...ttery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21

It looks a good bit of kit and should complete the bulk portion of battery charge (0 % up to 80% capacity) at around 30% quicker than the ctek 250s.The remaining 20% of charge (Absorption phase) takes place with a much lower current (5A falling < 1A) and will take around 7 hours whatever you use, though you could well achieve 95% charge in around 3 hours.

 

[karl webster]

Loving the sound of the heat exchanger and that a solar panel will keep up with demand.
Need to start saving up now and decide how to configure the truck.
Thinking back seat removal and water tank installation and fridge freezer with all the power stuff and storage under a platform of some sort.

A house boiler heat exchanger works well mate for a shower set up

 

[Chris]

Sterling are good, but the CTEK is considerably cheaper and waterproof.

 

[StarCruiser]

A house boiler heat exchanger works well mate for a shower set up

Is that the one I sent you Karl or was that too big in the end?

 

[karl webster]

Yours is going in the van mate. Unless i use it as a heater in tbe cruiser. Need some time to play so i can tezt it. I bought the fittings for it but not fitted yet.

 

[Trevor]

The newer ctek d250sa has a switch to set charging voltage for AGM batteries

https://www.tayna.co.uk/CTEK-D250SA-20A-DCDC-Battery-Charger-P10611.html

 

[StarCruiser]

Yours is going in the van mate. Unless i use it as a heater in tbe cruiser. Need some time to play so i can tezt it. I bought the fittings for it but not fitted yet.

I'll bet Poppy and Venus will both try and snuggle up on top of it if you put it in the van!

 

[StarCruiser]

I've just done a write up on the Intervolt DCC Pro I've fitted here https://www.landcruiserclub.net/com...olt-dcc-pro-dc-dc-split-charge-system.148666/ if it's of interest. I love it.

 

[hamba]

I'm currently in the research phase after our trip to Italy. I'm now looking for a second battery but as we won't need it for most of the year, it does make it more difficult.

I was looking at one of those portable power packs from National Luna but I can't justify the space required. The only viable option for me is to place the battery under the bonnet.
The biggest question for me is, won't it be a waist having leisure battery in there when I won't be using it for most of the year?

The other option is to add a second battery but use both, plug them in serial or something along those lines?
I've also read that the 150 alternator drops voltage as the engine warms up to 13.something volts, I can't remember what it was exactly so that will also have to be factored in.

Desitions, desitions.

 

[moggy1968]

have a look on you tube for Andrew St Pierre whites building of his latest landcruiser camper, a V8 70 series. He talks about lead crystal batteries, which look interesting, and also has a very neat, and efficient, water heating/shower system

 

[moggy1968]

That DC to DC charger looks interesting. I want to run a leisure battery at 12v, but all my O/E vehicle electrics are 24v so that looks a good option. As I understand it then, that takes power direct from the alternator to charge the leisure battery, so not risking your main starter batteries? No complex switching or anything like that?

 

[Paddler Ed]

I've built my own in a tool box using a 130Ah AGM battery, Projecta IDC25 (which can do 24Volt Moggy). At the moment it only runs on solar input, but I will set it so that there is an Anderson plug for an alternator input.

This is everything before I put it together - I can't find a completed picture. I mounted the IDC25 to some MDF with an ali panel between the IDC and MDF, along with all the circuit breakers and a bus bar for the negatives.

 

[garygiles1963]

Hamba

This is my current setup. Combination of a Goal Zero 400 and extra 2 x 33ah in a hard case. Helps make it a bit more portable.

 

[hamba]

Since my last post I've found the solarpod 240 portable solar generator which I think will be enough for us, there is a bigger version which I think will be to much for us and its bigger, Andrew St Pierre White has it in his truck as well and that was where I saw it.
If the 240 is to small then we can always just get another one and swap them over, they are nice and small so wont take up loads of space.