London Evening Standard report

[Chas]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...d-to-tackle-toxic-air-pollution-a3658216.html

Prof Kelly, of Kings College London, said that even electric cars should be banned from the busiest parts of the city.

“Even if we replaced every petrol or diesel car with an electric one there would still be particulate matter produced by the brakes (if not fully regenerative), tyres and road wear,” he told the Standard.

It's the start of things to come!

How many more years do we have left to drive, thank God I will probably be dead and buried before it happens.

And since when has Copenhagen been in Holland?

 

[StarCruiser]

Lynn read this out a few days ago. I read it 2 ways, 1, we've got to walk everywhere barefoot, and 2, cutting out diesel cars isn't going to solve the problem so why not just stay as we are.

 

[clivehorridge]

I liked an article I saw on new style emission free braking systems.

It worked using an iron-rich gel, totally enclosed in a sealed unit, so when you apply the brake pedal, the gel becomes electrically energized causing it to stiffen up under magnetism, until it becomes like a solid block.

Much like a viscous fan, on steroids.

I recon that would be good on any car. Apparently, the "feel" of the brakes is much more intense, and it can be set up to do away with the need for the current ABS type of nonsense.

 

[Paddler Ed]

The damage caused by cars running on the road is actually one thing that some economists struggle with - I've been at a conference seminar where they were oblivious of what was left behind - when performing Benfit-Cost Analysis and the associated valuation of the damage caused by vehicles.

The main part that confused these economists was that there was:
-rubber
-brake dust
-oils and other fluids
left behind on roads.

In this case IIRC they were discussing the damage that water run off causes, and therefore all of those get washed off of the road and into the ecosystem.

Now I know my 4Runner leaves rubber on the road (where else does it go when it wears) and so does my bike. However, I know I get more k's out of the tyres on the 4Runner (and they're only 3.5x the price of a bike tyre); my bikes also leave brake dust (rim or disc brakes) and if it's rainy they leave behind some oil when it washses off the chain.... in contrast the 4Runner leaves an oil mark whatever the weather...

Not sure even a horse is a good option, having seen the amount of shite a mate's horse left in the front garden after they worked out they were just along from our place...

 

[clivehorridge]

The damage caused by cars running on the road is actually one thing that some economists struggle with - I've been at a conference seminar where they were oblivious of what was left behind - when performing Benfit-Cost Analysis and the associated valuation of the damage caused by vehicles.

The main part that confused these economists was that there was:
-rubber
-brake dust
-oils and other fluids
left behind on roads.

In this case IIRC they were discussing the damage that water run off causes, and therefore all of those get washed off of the road and into the ecosystem.

Now I know my 4Runner leaves rubber on the road (where else does it go when it wears) and so does my bike. However, I know I get more k's out of the tyres on the 4Runner (and they're only 3.5x the price of a bike tyre); my bikes also leave brake dust (rim or disc brakes) and if it's rainy they leave behind some oil when it washses off the chain.... in contrast the 4Runner leaves an oil mark whatever the weather...

Not sure even a horse is a good option, having seen the amount of shite a mate's horse left in the front garden after they worked out they were just along from our place...

Mentioning water run-off, in developed cities, where the most concentrated traffic is, most of the surface water will run into the sewerage system, to a wastewater treatment plant.

There it will go through a process of bio-digestion before re-entering the “environment” and what isn’t digested is filtered out including oil separation, and disposed of as solid waste.

Depending on its composition, this can be burned at high temperature in power generating plants or used as fertilizer. Either way, (in developed countries) its my view that the non-gaseous emissions from vehicles is generally not an issue for the environment.

And as for the horse, well the more it shits, the better the soil, period

 

[MarkW]

In the UK all new road drainage has to incorporate pollution control systems to stop any runoff causing wider pollution and is separated from sewerage systems. The systems are designed to provide the treatment without placing burdens on sewage treatment works and increasing costs to the taxpayers. More and more these systems are natural treatment systems such as reed beds which also provide habitat for wildlife.

Both the Environment Agency and Highways England have been working in partnership over the last 15-20 years to retrofit older drainage systems with new pollution controls for high sensitivity areas.

 

[clivehorridge]

All European Motorways, UK Motorways & Highways have oil interceptors and silt traps, before discharge into local rivers, streams and watercourses.

In the cities here, surface water drainage is run into the sewers and it ends up at the water treatment plant just the same. New water treatment plants I've been involved with, need the surface water run-off flow in order to process the sewage.

It's fun when there's a flash storm, by-pass sluices take the excess storm-water to temporary storage ponds.

 

[StarCruiser]

All European Motorways, UK Motorways & Highways have oil interceptors and silt traps, before discharge into local rivers, streams and watercourses.

In the cities here, surface water drainage is run into the sewers and it ends up at the water treatment plant just the same. New water treatment plants I've been involved with, need the surface water run-off flow in order to process the sewage.

It's fun when there's a flash storm, by-pass sluices take the excess storm-water to temporary storage ponds.

Excellent!! Here the manholes lift and you get raw sewage and rainwater flooding the streets. Ain't Britain Great!

 

[Paddler Ed]

I did like Clive's comment about developed cities and the processing of the run off... certainly doesn't apply to much of Australia... which now makes sense as to the comment at the conference - don't forget that if the abatement cost is less than the cost of the potential damage, then the abatement will be carried out.

Had a look today as I was driving this morning, and a lot of the storm drains run into the creeks in town. I know that at the coast a lot of the storm drains run into the sea ultimately (that's why they often have a note on them about not putting rubbish in there)

 

[clivehorridge]

I had an eye-opener when we took on a medium sized project here for refurbishment/renewal of a wastewater treatment plant at a medium sized town, population <500,000.

The existing plant had apparently not been functional since before the revolution in '89, meaning that for the last 30-40 years, raw sewage had been pumped directly into the river running through the town. That river goes for several hundred kilometers before it gets to the sea.

"Fairly typical" I was told, of most towns here and nothing short of incredible you might think, but under-developed or under maintained Eastern European countries are not on their own.

Where I lived in West Wales, raw sewage from the town went untreated, not even macerated, directly into the sea, complete with paper, sanitary towels and condoms et al, and that's not uncommon in coastal locations, worldwide.

We impose fines on folks not separating their garbage, we target cars and vehicles, and not smoking within 50 meters of children (all admirable stuff), yet despite the rules and regulations we create, we still don't have our act together on any matter of environmental protection. In Europe generally (including the UK), many land-fill garbage sites go unrestricted and industry still belches out gasses and waste liquid effluents which are not permitted, and we're supposed to be developed.

India and Asian countries are well behind and what goes on in China is nobody's business.

We must not forget, the Environment is the World. It needs "appropriate levels of protection" worldwide.

Rant over.

 

[flint]

I can remember those days, but things are much improved in W. Wales now with new treatment plants, no more brown foam ! Good to see Thames Water being fined £20 million earlier this year for pumping 1.9 billion litres of raw sewage into the Thames, hopefully making them less likely to adopt the "it's cheaper to get fined than invest" mentality in future. It is a worldwide problem though with a constantly growing population.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Interesting read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

 

[Chas]

Interesting read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

Very interesting Andy.

 

[StarCruiser]

I can remember visiting the Bognor outfall station. It had some huge Pumps that pumped sewage out against the tide. Then in the 90s Southern Water constructed two pumping mains, one from Bognor and one from Littlehampton to s new treatment works at Ford where it then gets pumped out at LA again. Both Bognor and LA now have blue flag beaches with no 'items' washing up.

India has some appalling sanitation. I visited a trade show in Mumbai and the stench from a small water course that ran alongside the exhibition site was enough to make your toes curl!

 

[frank rabbets]

My mother was born and bred in the country outside Amanford. She told me about the "Ty Bach" they used which was a litlle hut built over a stream.

 

[clivehorridge]

In Cardigan, they used to “hold it” until the outgoing tide, then open the sluice of untreated sewage, directly into the Afon Teifi... right next to the “Commercial” a very popular pub, as it happens... near the old bridge.

 

[flint]

She told me about the "Ty Bach"

A two seater mentioned here: http://ourwelshfarm.blogspot.co.uk

 

[clivehorridge]

A two seater mentioned here: http://ourwelshfarm.blogspot.co.uk

Cosy.