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Need help diagnosing starting/starter problem

fridayman

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Jun 25, 2010
Messages
1,578
Garage
After converting my truck to a single battery on Sunday, it ran fine for a couple of days, until this morning... Turned the key, and it sounded like the starter made half a turn before it stopped and the dash lights just dimmed. Several further attempts sounded exactly like a flat battery (with dash lights dimming). When I tried to jump it off the batteries that I removed at the weekend, it made no difference so I just assume that something had drained the Odyssey and it was so flat that the original batteries were being pulled down too. So I stuck it on a charger (without testing the battery...). Several hours later I went back and tested the battery - 13.5V. So tried to start it but when I turn the key the dash lights dimm and nothing else happens. After a few goes I tested the battery again, which stayed around 12.6 - 12.7V (even after a few more attempts). So I tested the original batteries and both are 12.6V. Then I tried starting it in neutral - no joy. Back into park and still nothing. Then after a few more attempts it started rattling very loudly when I turn the key. So I don't think the battery is the problem.

Where do I start to figure out what is wrong? Could it be that fitting fatter cables has pushed something that was nearing the end of its life, over the edge? Should I be looking at the starter? A relay somewhere? Anything else?

While I'm very glad it happened at home, the truck is parked on a down slope with its nose between 2 gate pillars. Not ideal for working on the starter because I can't get the wheel off...
 
I had the missus turn the key while I was under the truck. The noise is definitely coming from the starter. Any ideas if this is a repair or a replace situation? Ideally I need the truck working this weekend, so could order whatever I need tomorrow for Friday delivery.
 
I took the battery to have it tested this morning. At first it looked fully charged, but then it showed 0 amps. The battery guy was a bit suprised, as he hadn't seen this before and definitely didn't expect it from an Odyssey battery.

This then raises the question, what happened? Why did it work fine for 2 days before failing so badly. We think that I may have killed it by using a motorcycle trickle charger on it which does not produce enough current for an AGM battery. The trickle charger will keep the volts up, but apparently cannot replace the amps - I don't fully understand this...
 
Well a motorcycle battery charger isn't going to do any damage to the battery ,, thats for sure.

Need look some where else.

Gra.
 
Batteries are much cleverer beasts then most people give them credit for. And when i say cleverer i mean sensitive :)

Have a look here : http://www.accumate.co.uk/OptiAccuMateComparison.htm

this is a comparison table of accumate battery charges. Compare the accumate pro (a car/truck charger) with an optimate- a motorbike charger.

The very max baatery you can have on an optimate is 50ah. Your odyssey will be at least 75- probably 80-90.

I am by no means an expert, but i have killed a lot of batteries :D (usually by deap discharge- and gel batteries really don't like deep discharge). Not giving enough current can leaad to sulfation- the way these chargers seem to work is by varying the voltage, ampage and some sort of frequency (whidh i really don't understand as its DC not AC). Without enough juice the battery is constantly trickled charged which i beleive leads to sulfation. what you want is the battery to discharge for a while, then give it a HUGE whack of electricity to reverse the sulfation and bring it back to health. Without enough charge you never get the battery back to health.

I have an accumate pro which was constantly attached to the dual batteries f the cruiser- it nwasn't really big enough for both those batteries- but it did a great jab on single batteries. Have seeen it bring back dead batteries!
 
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The guy at the battery place did mention that at the Optimate's max current (0.8A!) it couldn't deliver the punch required to reverse something (must have been the sulphation you described above).

This means that I have been using the 5 year old Odyssey battery, for the last 2 years, to jump start various bikes, cars & trucks without charging it properly once... So I bought another one :) The truck fired up first time with the new battery. I will keep the starter recon kit for when I need it.

I also ordered a CTEK MXS25 to be fitted to the truck permanently for when we are camped at powered sites and it is raining. I will see if it can bring the other Odyssey back too - you never know...
 
What type of charger is it? A lot of "trickle chargers" are just cheap rectified AC which is near the 16V mark. They do not offer a lot of current which is why they are called trickle chargers. You should stay away from them. They will ruin your battery.

With a voltage tester, test the charger without it being connected to anything. If it is a trickle charger it should be 13.8V
14.2-14.4 would indicate a normal charger and if not an intelligent charger, should not be left on the battery for extended periods.
Anything over 14.4 - bin the charger, it's not worth keeping it. Even for emergencies ('cause you'll forget it on and ruin another battery)
 
I would say that's a good battery charger.
I can't see any thing wrong with the charging pattern, and the self checking .

Gra
 
It's probably OK as a battery tender, but doesn't have enough amps to recharge a large discharged battery (to reverse sulfation).
 
I would agree with Graham, that charger is not "one of those". but yes, it might be a bit small.
I've got a number of CTEK chargers and very happy with them.
 
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