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Oil testing

Charlie - I did speak to them, they said they used to use the same company when they offered testing.

regarding sampling, so catch it as it's coming out the drain plug - not from your (cleaned) oil pan? or is it not _that_ fussy.

Right folks, I shall order the samples today, I have 8 required:
Rob * 2
Tony * 2
Ian Rubie * 2
Chas * 1
Me * 1

Will let you know when they arrive.
 
Well my experience has been with aircraft but in that case---yes very fussy if you figure its looking at contamination in parts per million

I am sure the manuf will provide detailed instructions--aircraft will usually have a tap for it or you use a plastic tube and put your thumb over the end to draw a sample ---this is without touching the sides or bottom of the tank

It will be interesting to see what your experience is with it--and what the testing reveals
 
bsmith123 said:
Well my experience has been with aircraft but in that case---yes very fussy if you figure its looking at contamination in parts per million

I am sure the manuf will provide detailed instructions--aircraft will usually have a tap for it or you use a plastic tube and put your thumb over the end to draw a sample ---this is without touching the sides or bottom of the tank

That is exactly what I was referring to.
We take all our oil samples either with a hand operated suction pump with a disposable plastic hose, or from dedicated sampling points. If you take the sample mid stream during drain, you stand the chance of getting contaminated / incorrect results. Don’t get me wrong I have done this myself, but ideally this should be avoided. The other added advantage of using a pump is the sample can be taken without the compartment being drained.

If you think a pump like this http://www.lubes-n-filters.com/syntheti ... /pump3.jpg will fit the bottles you are getting, I have spare pump and some hose I can give to somebody the Lincomb weekend and then it can be shared around.
 
The pump looks like a great idea for getting a clean sample

here is a little more on the fussiness of clean sampling:


Steps To Avoid..l
• Putting the cap of the bottle in your pocket. This popular practice usually
gives a high copper or nickel count depending on the change in your pocket.
• Letting lint, silicon, and unusual ppm readings ruin your day. These are
present many times by picking your bottle cap out of your pocket and are
usually a factor that can give you a false reading on your equipment reports
as well.
• Leaving sample bottles open in the air for a period of time before being filled
with your oil sample. Airborne contaminates from smoke, soot and other
sources will render your sample inaccurate

LETS HOPE NO-ONE REBUILDS FOR A HIGH LINT COUNT! :pray: :lol:



http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... ling-lists

Oil Sampling Do's and Don'ts

* Print

Jason Kopschinsky, Noria Corporation
Tags: lubricant sampling, oil analysis

People love “do’s and don’ts” lists. A quick Google search will yield 10.9 million hits for what to do and not do. A quick scan through the endless supply of D&D lists will show that many of the subjects people feel the need on which to provide unsolicited consulting really don’t have a defined method of approach beyond common sense. For example, the do’s and don’ts of air travel barely stretch outside the realm of common sense. Advice such as “Do not place your firearm in your carry-on luggage” or “Do not smoke while in the aircraft” goes without saying. Then there are the do and do-not-do lists for topics that are highly subjective such as fashion (Don’t wear white after Labor Day).

Thankfully, in the realm of oil analysis and machinery lubrication, few do’s and don’ts can be considered subjective. In this case, we’re talking about what to do and not do related to oil sampling for analysis. These simple rules will make or break the integrity of your sample, which is meant to drive your maintenance and reliability decisions.
Follow the Rules

Oil analysis is a condition monitoring tool designed to monitor:

* fluid properties, or the condition of the oil and the additives;
* fluid contamination; and,
* machine wear.

However, the analysis of a sample greatly depends on the quality of the sample itself. A high-quality sample translates into one that is rich with data and free from noise. The content of this article is nothing new. Dozens (if not hundreds) of articles, papers and books have had some advice for us to follow when extracting a sample of oil from a machine for analysis. However, as an industry, we don’t seem to get it right.

The same rules for oil sampling still apply, just like they always did. Here is the most recent do and do-not-do list for oil sampling from my perspective.

1) DO sample from running machines. DO NOT sample “cold” systems. This rule goes beyond simply starting the machine to take the sample. The ideology behind oil analysis is to capture a “snapshot” of the system at the time of sampling. The timing of the sampling should be when the system is under the greatest amount of stress. Typically, the best time to sample a system is when the system is under normal working load and normal conditions. This can be a tricky task when sampling from a system that continuously cycles during normal production, such as the hydraulic system on an injection molding machine. It’s under these conditions that we’ll capture a sample that best represents the machine conditions most likely to cause accelerated wear.

2) DO sample upstream of filters and downstream of machine components. Filters are designed to pull out wear debris and contaminants, so sampling downstream of these data-strippers provides no value. However, taking a sample before and after a filter for a simple particle count will allow you to see how well the filter is currently operating. Obviously, we expect the particle count before the filter to be higher than after the filter. If it’s not, it’s time to change the filter. Condition-based filter changes can be very important for sensitive systems and expensive filters.

3) DO create specific written procedures for each system sampled. DO NOT change sampling methods or locations. Everything we do in oil analysis and machinery lubrication should have a detailed procedure to back up the task. Each maintenance point in the plant should have specific and unique procedures detailing who, what, where, when and how. Oil sampling procedures are no different. We need to identify the sample location, the amount of flush volume, the frequency of sampling, the timing within a cycle to sample, and indicate what tools and accessories to use on that specific sample point based on lubricant type, pressure and amount of fluid required.

4) DO ensure that sampling valves and sampling devices are thoroughly flushed prior to taking the sample. DO NOT use dirty sampling equipment or reuse sample tubing. Cross-contamination has always been a problem in oil sampling. The truth of the matter is that flushing is an important task that is often overlooked. Failure to flush the sample location properly will produce a sample with a high degree of noise. Flushing prior to sampling needs to account for the amount of dead space between the sample valve and the active system multiplied by a factor of 10. If there is a run of pipe 12 inches long between the sample valve and the active system that holds one fluid ounce of oil, you need to flush a minimum of 10 fluid ounces before taking the sample for analysis. Flushing the dead space also will flush your other accessories such as your sample valve adapter and new tubing.

5) DO ensure that samples are taken at proper frequencies. DO NOT sample “as time permits.” Many of those responsible for taking oil samples rarely see the results of the analysis. One of the most powerful aspects of oil analysis is identifying a change in the baseline of a sample and understanding the rate at which the change has occurred. For example, a sample of new oil should have zero parts per million (ppm) of iron when tested as the baseline. As regular sampling and analysis continues, we may see the iron level increase. An increase of 10 or 12 ppm per sample may be considered critical; however, if the frequency is not consistent, what is considered normal becomes very subjective. If our frequency of sampling is 12 months, a rise in iron of 12 ppm isn’t a major cause of concern. If our frequency is weekly, a rise in iron of 12 ppm is very concerning. Setting up the appropriate sampling frequency and adhering to it will allow for precise analysis and sound maintenance decisions.

6) DO forward samples immediately to the oil analysis lab after sampling. DO NOT wait more than 24 hours to send samples out. As mentioned earlier, oil sampling is much like taking a snapshot of your system at a point in time. The health of a lubricated system can change dramatically in a very short period of time. If a problem is detected in a system, the earlier it is detected, the less catastrophic potential it may have. Jumping on a problem early will not only allow you time to plan for a repair, but the repair will potentially be less significant.
 
Personally and this is just my option, if I was going to take an oil sample from my Cruiser engine. I would take the truck for a run and get the oil up to normal operating temperature, park the truck on a level area, stop the engine, remove the dipstick, measure a piece of hose a little longer than the dipstick, put the hose into the pump, remove the cap off the sample bottle (place in a clean location) and put the bottle into the pump, feed the hose down the dipstick tube and take the sample from neither the surface of the oil nor from the bottom near the sump. Once the sample is taken remove the hose, remove the sample bottle from the pump and reinstall the cap, at all times keeping everything as clean and contaminant free as possible. This is not the perfect method, but for 1 off sampling its about all you can do. The sample results should show any fuel dilution or sodium content. Also it should show wear metals, other contaminants and oil additives.
 
right folks, kits on their way. Please send me your addressed where I can post them to.

I asked about how to take the sample and he said what has already been said. (I had no doubt the folk here were correct ;))
He did say to warm up the engine, undo the drain and catch a sample mid flow. i.e. not the first lot out, not the last.

Cheers,
 
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Crispin said:
He did say to warm up the engine, undo the drain and catch a sample mid flow. i.e. not the first lot out, not the last.

Cheers,

He did say to warm up the engine :thumbup:, undo the drain and catch a sample mid flow :naughty:
 
in his defense, he said mid flow is the best of the bad options. e did say the sample pump, tube option etc. I just gave the shortened version.

I might try the fish tank tube dipping method described here. Seeing as I am interested in soot, it should not have settled that much (should it? :? )
 
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