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Over heating problems in very high temperatures

Bat21

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On a recent trip to Morocco where temperatures were reaching 57C my 80 was drinking water like a steam train, 1 liter every 100 or so miles :shock:

We started off from the UK with a 200 mile stretch to the the ferry port, all was fine.

Next was a 680 mile day down through Spain, all was fine in the North but, as we were about 100 miles from the Southern tip the temp gauge started climbing.

Lifting the hood revealed a full/overflowing header tank and the breather pipe was bubbling away. Once I had carefully released the rad filler cap, which took 3-4 minutes, it was evident that the water was boiling. I emptied the contents of the header tank back into the rad and then topped up the rad and header tank with more water (1 liter).

For the next 2 weeks this was a regular occurrence, which seemed to be worse when there were many hills or tough sand crossing involved.

After a quick phone call to Julian I realised the over heating issue was being caused by me fitting a eBay single core rad before the trip. I didn't realise the standard rad is 3 core and the replacement was supposed to be to OEM spec. With the autobox cooler in the bottom of the rad it was also causing the water temp to rise with the difficult terrain :(

Checking the rad every 100 miles kept the problem at bay but, when it wasn't boiling there appeared to be 'Black grit' around the rad filler. It doesn't appear to be metalic as it is totally Black with a sand like texture... any ideas what it is?

This was an all too regular occurance which, in the presence of a Green Oval, was bloody embarrassing.
1004903542_Vx2XM-L.jpg
 

Chris

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Is it possible that you could fit a higher rated rad cap? Obviously this lifts at a certain pressure and ejects water / relieves pressure. Thinking out loud really.

C
 

24Seven

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Bat21 said:
This was an all too regular occurance which, in the presence of a Green Oval, was bloody embarrassing.

You have let yourself down, you have let us all down :naughty: :shock: :mrgreen:
 

pugwash

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what steps did you take prior to changing the rad?

did you flush the block- taking both drain cocks out? did you refill with the proper mix of red Toyota Coolant? did you check your thermostat? Did you change the pipework?

the black grit could be casting sand which was left behind when the block was made- it often sits at the bottom of the waterways and boiling the engine lifts the silt- it could also be strippig off the inside of the hoses.

One tip is to turn on the interior heaters full blast with full heat- yes its blooming uncomfy (especially in 50degree heat), but its better than leaving your vehicle behind! As many LCs have a front and rear heater you can shift quite a lot of heat out of the engine.

Does the rad have good flow- do you have spots in front of the rad, or even a winch? or both! tese things can serioujsly impeded the flow to the rad.
 

sae70

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Bat21 said:
After a quick phone call to Julian I realised the over heating issue was being caused by me fitting a eBay single core rad before the trip. I didn't realise the standard rad is 3 core and the replacement was supposed to be to OEM spec. With the autobox cooler in the bottom of the rad it was also causing the water temp to rise with the difficult terrain
Surely you have already identified the cause of the over heating :? As said you just need an OEM spec rad & all's sorted :thumbup:

Hope there's no damage caused from the over heating & it's just been a lesson learnt :| Fingers crossed for you :pray: :thumbup:
 

Bat21

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pugwash said:
what steps did you take prior to changing the rad?

did you flush the block- taking both drain cocks out? did you refill with the proper mix of red Toyota Coolant? did you check your thermostat? Did you change the pipework?

the black grit could be casting sand which was left behind when the block was made- it often sits at the bottom of the waterways and boiling the engine lifts the silt- it could also be strippig off the inside of the hoses.

One tip is to turn on the interior heaters full blast with full heat- yes its blooming uncomfy (especially in 50degree heat), but its better than leaving your vehicle behind! As many LCs have a front and rear heater you can shift quite a lot of heat out of the engine.

Does the rad have good flow- do you have spots in front of the rad, or even a winch? or both! tese things can serioujsly impeded the flow to the rad.
I must admit I didn't flush the block prior to fitting the new rad as I wasn't (still aren't) sure where the block drain cocks are? :oops:

I fitted the new rad 11 months ago and was running Toyota Red pre mixed from the dealer, she never used a drop from the time of fitting up until this trip. When I changed the rad I also fitted a new genuine thermostat and rad cap + top and bottom hoses.

I have an ARB winch bumper with a Warn XDC9000, there are no spots mounted up front as I knew this would effect the air flow to the rad, as you can see from the photo the main grill area if fairly clear with just the winch solenoid pack sitting to the off side.
1005994757_i2CZt-L.jpg


Before the next big trip I will be replacing the rad with a new Toyota one and getting the fan clutch checked out. I'm also thinking of fitting a Kenlowe fan and additional gearbox cooler inline with the rad mounted one.
 
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Chas

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Bat21 said:
pugwash said:
I'm also thinking of fitting a Kenlowe fan and additional gearbox cooler inline with the rad mounted one.
I used to have a 17" Kenlowe sucker fan on my 80 but the fan shroud couldn't be fitted with the Kenlowe so the airflow was just over the area of the fan alone, not as with the shroud in place, the whole of the rad area, but on long hills and the like the temp needle would often go into the red :thumbdown: so I went back to the original Toyo viscous fan on the advice of Julian V and don't have any trouble now, even with the rad often having a coat of mud, also the aircon rad wasn't getting enough airflow so I fitted a Kenlowe blower fan in front of that as well, which had to come off to fit the intercooler rad and then even with two electric fans the engine still got hot but with the viscous fan re-fitted both aircon and engine are fine :thumbup: .
Chas
 

Jon Wildsmith

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Do you have an EGT or transmission oil temperature gauge Paul? A lot of extra load is put on the cooling system by either of those being high and it could be that your radiator is performing as well as an OEM unit would. Do you have an aux gearbox oil cooler or only the OEM one? If you fit helper fans, have a look at the X-Eng site for their fan solenoid insert for the lower radiator hose which IMO is a better solution than the Kenlowe thermostats.
 

Bat21

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Jon Wildsmith said:
Do you have an EGT or transmission oil temperature gauge Paul? A lot of extra load is put on the cooling system by either of those being high and it could be that your radiator is performing as well as an OEM unit would.
I don't have either, I changed the ATF for semi synth Dextron III which I think helped as the ATF Temp light only came on once during the whole trip while going over the Tiz N Test.

Jon Wildsmith said:
Do you have an aux gearbox oil cooler or only the OEM one?
That was something I was seriously considering before the trip but never got around to fitting one, it is high on the list of must dos now.

Jon Wildsmith said:
If you fit helper fans, have a look at the X-Eng site for their fan solenoid insert for the lower radiator hose which IMO is a better solution than the Kenlowe thermostats.
I was thinking of fitting two 'push' fans in front of the rad/aircon condenser... any ideas what the address of the X-Eng site is?
 

sae70

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I removed the viscouse fan from off of my Vitara & fitted an electric fan conversion to improve cooling, increase available engine power & to give me the option of isolating the fan during deep water wadding.

now as you Kenlow was to be my only choice untill I started to look into it, so to save me time I've cut & pasted the start of my thread on the subject from Shropshire Suzuki to here :) I hope it's of help to you :thumbup:

Decided to remove the factory standard fitted viscous fan and fan cowl from Shaky and fit an electric fan that can be isolated when wadding :)

After much trawling of the net and reading about other peoples findings with respect to different electric fan manufacturers I have chosen to go with a Spal electric fan as I could only find positive comments written about them even by the LR boys and could not find any negative comments :) Where as it was easy to find negative comments that people had written about the other two well known electric fan manufacturers :)

So decision made I contacted Fereday cars and spoke to a chap called Allen who was extremely helpful and mailed me all kinds of spec/performance detail and dimension drawings :)

After much chat about what I required from my electric fan the one that he recommended for Shaky was a 12" straight blade suction fan part# VA10-AP9/C-25A 305mm/52mm/12V/suction) and the more robust mechano style fan mounting kit part# 4 x 3013.0011.

The decision to go for the 12" fan was simply because it is the largest one that would comfortably fit the back of the radiator, suction as it would fit between the radiator and the engine and so be less exposed to the extremes of off road compared to a blower fan mounted on the front of the radiator, straight blade because although the curved blade fans are more efficient they are more delicate and prone to going out of balance when covered in dried mud and breaking a blade and the mechano style fan fixing kit simply because it provided a far stronger fixing and so better for the off road environment all of this advice given by Allen of Fereday Cars who has been using and supplying the Spal fan range for some 20 years :!: :D

Total cost for the fan and fixing kit £78.03 delivered :)

I had already decided to use a sealed control thermostat with a machined ally billet housing mounted in the top hose it was really just a case of finding the cheapest and that I found here @ Matt Lewis Racing on eBay :) the one that he recommends for the Vit has 24mm diameter spigots but as the radiator and thermostat spigots on Shaky measure 28mm I decided to purchase the 30mm diameter spigot housing :D

Total cost for the sealed control thermostat and machined ally billet housing £33.98 delivered :)

That just left all of the wiring components to source and these I got from Vehicle Wiring Products :) from here I purchased the wire, fuse holders, fuses, relays, switch, connectors IDC/crimp, heatshrink sleaving and the indicator LED's :D

Total cost for all of the wiring components £31.13 delivered :)

Here's the links :arrow:

Fereday Cars (Spal Fans) http://www.feredaycars.co.uk/everything%20else/

Matt Lewis Racing (alloy stat housing) http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Matt-Lewis-Racing

Vehicle Wiring Products (relays, wires, fuses, switches) http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... mepage.php

My original post on Shropshire Suzuki http://www.shropshire-suzuki.co.uk/foru ... =15&t=2803
 
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