Peak civilisation.

[Rob Cowell]

An example of the longer lifespan:

• My Paternal Grandfather died 10 years or so before I was born, but I had both maternal Grandparents + 1x Great-Grandparent on that side.
• My nephew was born 4 years ago, and he had both maternal and paternal grandparents AND at least 4 Great-Grandparents. My brother was about the same age as our parents were when they had me. The number of Great-Grandparents has dropped of by 3 in the last 2 years, so there is a bit of a drop - but in those 3 cases they were 97 and 92ish respectively...

The challenge is that we are now regularly seeing 4 generation families, where 2 of those generations are not working.... the difference is now that it's those who have chosen/been able to retire.

Although, I think the prize who goes to a Great Great Aunt who had managed to spend longer retired (spinster teacher, so a full 40something years working) than working, and had lived in 3 centuries... but she had no kids because that would have meant being married and not working.

I have the same examples. We have pictures of 5 generations of my family together from a couple of years ago.
I think the problem is we no longer work until we die. We expect to have a 20-30 year holiday before we die. And we expect other people to work to pay for it through national insurance, and a growing economy to fund our investments. Again, to be clear, I also want a 20-30 year holiday. But it's not a sustainable wish.

 

[Paddler Ed]

So you also think it's old peoples fault for living longer.

No, more unsustainable population habits...

What I didn't add is that for my Grandparents, they only had one Great-Grandchild; in contrast my Great-Grandmother had about 5 by the time of her death. There's pros and cons to each side....

But we do also need to look at what age people have kids (is it really sustainable to have kids when you're 25 or is it more sustainable at 35?) - what you're looking at is the generational replacement rate; if 3 generations (great grandparent, grandparent and parent) have kids at 25, then you're looking at 75 years between the oldest (great grand parent) and the newest (child); change that to 35 and you're now looking at 105 years, so less likely to have that great grandparent.

Does this also provide the opportunity to narrow things like the gender pay gap, as women are leaving/returning at a later point in their career where hopefully they are earning more than if they did so in their 20's? Who knows...

 

[frank rabbets]

There will be a lot of empty nursing homes in 2021. I have a bad feeling. I have lowered immunity due to 17 years of prostate cancer, copd and asthma. Anyway I'm not going to avoid life, if When I get it I'll battle it. I have a huge bottle of oxygen in the garage, just got to convert 2000 psi to atmospheric pressure lol.

 

[Rob Cowell]

'Old people' are not responsible for 'over population' you logic is flawed.

Responsible has (at least) two distinct meanings. Although I didn't use that word. But in any case in response to increased life expectancy we have increased population, ergo, responsible. Could old people in general have done anything about this? No. So in another respect, not responsible.

 

[jibberjabber]

There will be a lot of empty nursing homes in 2021. I have a bad feeling. I have lowered immunity due to 17 years of prostate cancer, copd and asthma. Anyway I'm not going to avoid life, if When I get it I'll battle it. I have a huge bottle of oxygen in the garage, just got to convert 2000 psi to atmospheric pressure lol.

That easy, just get a regulator from BOC, and yes you can use non medical O2 in an emergency, it's not quite as pure as medical but good enough, have you got a spare mask for me.

 

[jibberjabber]

Responsible has (at least) two distinct meanings. Although I didn't use that word. But in any case in response to increased life expectancy we have increased population, ergo, responsible. Could old people in general have done anything about this? No. So in another respect, not responsible.

primarily is responsible for overpopulation; old people.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Fair cop. I did use the word, but not in that context. Which your quote editing has accidentally obscured. The metric is responsible through correlation. This does not infer the subject of the metric is responsible.

 

[Towpack]

it's mostly old people who complain about over population, which is mathematically, very much their fault for living so long

Plot historic global life expectancy next to historic global population growth. And then consider the effect of a highly contagious virus that kills old people. Problem solved.

.

What a load of rubbish. “Old” people are neither responsible for overpopulation nor are they the top moaners. I think everyone would agree that the base cause of the planet’s ills of pollution, deforestation,climate change etc is that there’s just too many of us yet look at the makeup of the climate change demos and they’re probably 90%+ “young” people.
Coronovirus is not exclusively a problem for “old” people either as young healthy people have also succumbed and you could be one of them.

 

[chadr]

Agree with Rob as the facts speak for themselves (I think the use of the word responsible may have made the discussion more emotive ).

Loads of resources on the subject available on the internet (from reliable sources) but I'll leave this one here;

https://www.who.int/ageing/publications/global_health.pdf

From the above WHO document, the graph below illustrates quite well IMHO how things are changing;

 

[jibberjabber]

Agree with Rob as the facts speak for themselves (I think the use of the word responsible may have made the discussion more emotive ).

Loads of resources on the subject available on the internet (from reliable sources) but I'll leave this one here;

https://www.who.int/ageing/publications/global_health.pdf

From the above WHO document, the graph below illustrates quite well IMHO how things are changing;

View attachment 164362

While were on the subject of 'Facts' (you used the word not me) the word Responsible was used Irresponsibly, and still does alter the 'Fact' that it's not old peoples fault if they die of Corona disease, and will not 'solve the problem' as previously stated by RC.

You youngsters are the first to stand up against any 'ism' as long as it's not 'ageism' you'll all change your tunes in a few years time.

Yes, if you don't want an 'Emotive', response then use less emotive words, I'll put it in Land Cruiser terms, Put yer brain in gear before you open yer gob.

Never tease an old dog; he might have one bite left.

 

[jibberjabber]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[frank rabbets]

I'm well sorted then. I do have a regulator but did not think it would pass enough volume but on second thoughts it would. If the oxygen does not help I can always put myself to sleep with the acetylene. Off to make a ramp now to get the trolley in to the house. It's bloody heavy having full sized industrial cylinders.

 

[jibberjabber]

What a load of rubbish. “Old” people are neither responsible for overpopulation nor are they the top moaners. I think everyone would agree that the base cause of the planet’s ills of pollution, deforestation,climate change etc is that there’s just too many of us yet look at the makeup of the climate change demos and they’re probably 90%+ “young” people.
Coronovirus is not exclusively a problem for “old” people either as young healthy people have also succumbed and you could be one of them.

 

[Rob Cowell]

While were on the subject of 'Facts' (you used the word not me) the word Responsible was used Irresponsibly, and still does alter the 'Fact' that it's not old peoples fault if they die of Corona disease, and will not 'solve the problem' as previously stated by RC.

If overpopulation is a problem then if enough old people die it will solve the problem of over population in the short term. Until all the young people get old, but then we can invent a new virus.

Nowhere have I or anyone else said it is old people's fault if they die of COVID-19. I reread the thread and I am quite sure of this. I did say that mathematically it was the fault of old people the global population is growing. The mathematical context was poorly explained.

The number of old people is statistically the most significant factor driving population growth.

 

[jibberjabber]

I'm well sorted then. I do have a regulator but did not think it would pass enough volume but on second thoughts it would. If the oxygen does not help I can always put myself to sleep with the acetylene. Off to make a ramp now to get the trolley in to the house. It's bloody heavy having full sized industrial cylinders.

Back in my SCUBA days we learnt about Oxygen Therapy as it's the best first aid for Decompression sickness (the bends), but only for 20 mins in any one hour as pure O2 becomes poisonous after that, so if we oldies get Corona we might want to go past the 20 mins

 

[chadr]

Just to be 100% clear, I made absolutely no comment about Coronavirus and its impact on the elderly.

What I was addressing, was the "fact" that the older population (over 65's) now account for a larger percentage of the world population than the young (under 5's). And this trend is only set to increase even more in the future - in only 10-15 years, there will be twice as many over 65s, as there will be under 5s.

Ignoring the evidence or shouting louder, doesn't make your argument stronger....

 

[jibberjabber]

If overpopulation is a problem then if enough old people die it will solve the problem of over population in the short term. Until all the young people get old, but then we can invent a new virus.

Nowhere have I or anyone else said it is old people's fault if they die of COVID-19. I reread the thread and I am quite sure of this. I did say that mathematically it was the fault of old people the global population is growing. The mathematical context was poorly explained.

The number of old people is statistically the most significant factor driving population growth.

As I'm old, I'm now bored and have lost intrest in this thread.

So your right and I'm wrong, I'm old so I know nothing.

 

[jibberjabber]

Just to be 100% clear, I made absolutely no comment about Coronavirus and its impact on the elderly.

What I was addressing, was the "fact" that the older population (over 65's) now account for a larger percentage of the world population than the young (under 5's). And this trend is only set to increase even more in the future - in only 10-15 years, there will be twice as many over 65s, as there will be under 5s.

Ignoring the evidence or shouting louder, doesn't make your argument stronger....

Agree with Rob as the facts speak for themselves

Yes you did, you agreed with Rob, and he said the problem would be solved if old people die.

highly contagious virus that kills old people. Problem solved.

You are both clearly being Ageist as you are both implying that there are to many old folk in the world, and that it's old folks fault that there is over population, so a pandemic killing off a few nonconsequential oldies wouldn't be a problem, so as Rob said "Problem solved"

Are you politicians, as they are good at 'spin' as well

 

[jibberjabber]

There will be a lot of empty nursing homes in 2021. I have a bad feeling. I have lowered immunity due to 17 years of prostate cancer, copd and asthma. Anyway I'm not going to avoid life, if When I get it I'll battle it. I have a huge bottle of oxygen in the garage, just got to convert 2000 psi to atmospheric pressure lol.

Also, sorry to hear about your medical probs, I hope Corona dosen't get you or at least you survive it if it does.

Oh the joys of getting old, what, what.

P.S if it's true what the young'uns are saying about there being more oldies than kids in the world, then they will have to watch out, as we will be able to veto anything they say

O2 rules.

 

[chapel gate]

Old or young, doesn't matter.
The planet is still over populated.