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Peak civilisation.

If i may try to end the angst on this thread by translating remainer speak to brexiteer speak , all in what has been said is society's model is broken . People give birth earlier and live longer which is financially unsustainable under the current model . Overpopulation is a catch all term nobody is to blame but everyone is .

True wealth is fertile land which can produce crops decade after decade in a sustainable cycle producing enough to feed all who tend to it . But when nature flips a cruel coin it is the poor and the weak who will suffer most as is natures way .

What we want and how we might feel about it is irrelevant because nature doesn't care .

Didn't China impose a one child policy to correct a failing society model , it would sure help us as we all want to care for our elderly in a sustainable manner , but is that a world we want to live in ?

Rob tends to state cold hard and callous facts but i'm quite sure emotionally he cares as much for his grandparents and your own as the next man but there's no getting away from the truth that this virus offers a solution to a problem nobody wants to face and we need to start looking for more humane solutions .
 
If i may try to end the angst on this thread by translating remainer speak to brexiteer speak , all in what has been said is society's model is broken . People give birth earlier and live longer which is financially unsustainable under the current model . Overpopulation is a catch all term nobody is to blame but everyone is .

True wealth is fertile land which can produce crops decade after decade in a sustainable cycle producing enough to feed all who tend to it . But when nature flips a cruel coin it is the poor and the weak who will suffer most as is natures way .

What we want and how we might feel about it is irrelevant because nature doesn't care .

Didn't China impose a one child policy to correct a failing society model , it would sure help us as we all want to care for our elderly in a sustainable manner , but is that a world we want to live in ?

Rob tends to state cold hard and callous facts but i'm quite sure emotionally he cares as much for his grandparents and your own as the next man but there's no getting away from the truth that this virus offers a solution to a problem nobody wants to face and we need to start looking for more humane solutions .
What would you suggest, euthanasia for the old, after all it's humane for old dogs.

I see the old guard are sticking together.
 
I can see that standing up for old people is not the right thing to do in this thread.
 
Yes you did, you agreed with Rob, and he said the problem would be solved if old people die......

I made no comment about there being "too many" old people or killing them off!

In a decade or so, I'll be in the 65+ group, so I certainly wouldn't consider myself young (or ageist for that matter).

Where I did agree with Rob was that the higher percentage of older people in world population has contributed to higher population numbers overall. I think I made that quite clear in my earlier post. As life expectancy across the world goes up, even though overall birth rates are falling, the overpopulation problem will only get worse. What's the solution - I have no idea :think:.


Obviously, I seem to have hit a raw nerve and understand it can be a sensitive topic, so I'll leave this discussion here.

Take it easy :thumbup:
 
If i may try to end the angst on this thread by translating remainer speak to brexiteer speak , all in what has been said is society's model is broken . People give birth earlier and live longer which is financially unsustainable under the current model . Overpopulation is a catch all term nobody is to blame but everyone is .

I can't find global data but in the UK at least people give birth later and later. There is just no hiding from the way population growth is driven by life expectancy.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/294590/mother-average-age-of-at-childbirth-england-and-wales/

I only mentioned this in the first place because we managed to get one post in before population size was mentioned, as it often is. And I think we have to take an uncompassionate view of why this is. Couldn't agree more with nobody is to blame but everyone is.
 
I can't find global data but in the UK at least people give birth later and later. There is just no hiding from the way population growth is driven by life expectancy.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/294590/mother-average-age-of-at-childbirth-england-and-wales/

I only mentioned this in the first place because we managed to get one post in before population size was mentioned, as it often is. And I think we have to take an uncompassionate view of why this is. Couldn't agree more with nobody is to blame but everyone is.
Go on have the last word.

But think about this.

How would you like it if you had a 85 year old mother with breathing difficulties, and I said that over population could be solved by old folk dying, so yes you have hit a raw nerve.

You take it easy as well.
 
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Jibber today i will be taking an 84 year old man to the pub despite not wanting to go myself and having explained all my own doubts about the idea because he has been housebound for months with breathing difficulties and because i've not long returned from a 500 mile round trip including ferries . He insists . Nobody is going to do that for me because i will be long dead before 80 years . He is not related to me in any way he has a large family including adopted children all grown up and living not 6 doors away but guess what , they don't care in fact it pisses them off when he spends his pension/their inheritance in the pub with me . So i hope you will accept from that that no i don't think euthanasia is a humane answer .
 
Jibber today i will be taking an 84 year old man to the pub despite not wanting to go myself and having explained all my own doubts about the idea because he has been housebound for months with breathing difficulties and because i've not long returned from a 500 mile round trip including ferries . He insists . Nobody is going to do that for me because i will be long dead before 80 years . He is not related to me in any way he has a large family including adopted children all grown up and living not 6 doors away but guess what , they don't care in fact it pisses them off when he spends his pension/their inheritance in the pub with me . So i hope you will accept from that that no i don't think euthanasia is a humane answer .
Shayne, You tell me what you think is a humane answer, you tabled the question.

But well done for taking your 84 year old neighbour to the pub, despit not wanting to go yourself, theres not enough done for old people in this country.
Rob tends to state cold hard and callous facts but i'm quite sure emotionally he cares as much for his grandparents and your own as the next man but there's no getting away from the truth that this virus offers a solution to a problem nobody wants to face and we need to start looking for more humane solutions .
 
Its for better heads than mine to work out a financially viable solution , tax national insurance , etc etc governments must budget for everyone living past 100 years but who will when they are only worried about their own position here and now and for the next few years , they all retire wealthy .
 
I thought it was decline in infant mortality that triggered population growth. You have to be born to be one of the population.

Anyway I was born in 1946. That is the year that everyone born turned out to be highly intelligent, popular and clever at everything.
 
I thought it was decline in infant mortality that triggered population growth. You have to be born to be one of the population.

Anyway I was born in 1946. That is the year that everyone born turned out to be highly intelligent, popular and clever at everything.

But you can see it's not much of a factor when you look at the demographic chart posted earlier showing under 5 numbers are declining as over 65 numbers are climbing. The improvements in infant mortality are partially offset by the decline in birth rate. In the last 30 years mortality figures have reduced 50%, but birth rates are down 30%. As infant mortality was "only" 6.5% 30 years ago it was never knocking back big numbers in the first place. Might have been more of a factor longer ago, I haven't seen the figures.
 
Go on have the last word.

But think about this.

How would you like it if you had a 85 year old mother with breathing difficulties, and I said that over population could be solved by old folk dying, so yes you have hit a raw nerve.

You take it easy as well.

Problem is the only way to "solve" over population, if you define that with an arbitrary number of people, is to stop some people from living. Some who already are. Or some who are not yet. That's likely to be an emotive subject to everyone.

And I very sincerely hope your mother is unaffected by the current situation.
 
I was born in 1972 and all of establishment , doctors , dentists , teachers , police , social services , even parents had me convinced by the age of 5 that i was nothing but an inconvenience to the world , and all i did was try to please them . I wasn't 10 before i concluded the only reasonable response was an alternative fuck em all attitude :lol:
 
A personal story from me.... since August last year I've devoted my time to my 86year old Aunty, who didn't have a child and as the time went on my support increased to being in a carer situation.

Started as "Can you pop down and sort this out for me as I can't quite manage to do this." "Can you goto the doctors to pick up my prescriptions."

To "Come down now, I'm in a hell of a mess COME AND HELP ME!"

The first time she went into an ambulance it was serious stress for myself and my Aunty.

Continued with going through the process of dealing with hospital consultants, being transferred to local hospital then back home, which she was discharged with no care at all.... I dealt with this and put my life on hold! What else could I do? Going home and forgetting about it wasn't an option!!

So got involved with the social services and there was relief which really I was very thankful for help!

Other members of the family were absolutely NOT THERE! Later involved after it was too late to assist

Going on in December / January she was so ill from smoking ciggies for a lifetime, she had COPD, no oxygenated blood going to her legs feeding the blood vessels and being very frail and under weight.

When she left the hospital the social services sorted a place in a local care home. So when previously my Aunt used to have authority over me and tell me what to do!.... I had to tell her that "I'm sorry Aunty, But you can not cope at home!" A complete role reversal!

She tried to escape from the home at 2am fell over and was omitted back to A and E and back to the process of getting out of A N E ... by now the ambulance staff knew her well and she was used to it! Which was a contrast to the stress of the earlier days.

Fast forward to a week before the day and never seen her so very ill can not breath and given antibiotic drip two days after the course pf AB back at stage one. So inspiring the reply here in the thread--- medicine will pull you back from the line in the sand. But when the medicine/treatment brings you back

If you smoke cigarettes then "Now is the best time to CUT IT OUT!"

You have to look after your OLDIES just like a BABY! :thumbup:
 
Your aunt's illness sounds very similar to my mates Iwan only he quit smoking 40 odd years ago , they first diagnosed farmers lung and that reduced him from an astonishingly fit and active 84 year old who spent most of his days tending the garden and growing vegetables to housebound can't walk to the garden gate in about 2 weeks from his first sign of problems .

While pissed off with the stories he was telling me about his GP's "experiments" and insisting i attend the next appointment with him he actually took another bad turn so instead of the usual i dialed 999 and said this man's heart is failing , long story short he was sent to a specialist in London who said the heart op he needed was to dangerous because of his age but with oxygen , the right medication and time he can get better . Today was his first day out in 6 months . He is improving and he knows it so he has something to fight for .

A stubborn old farmer its for me to watch how he's managing and occasionally say "i'm not asking you to i'm telling you to"

It's age mate just age and only a question of which component fails first .
 
It's age mate just age and only a question of which component fails first .

It's cruel world indeed when it comes to old age and illness combined Shayne..

I missed the end off my speel... when an elderly person is so hopelessly ill and really wants to pass away.. modern treatment is there to save and bring the person back which prolongs what the person is really wanting or waiting for.

It's only when they don't respond to treatment is when they're "made comfortable!" And their wish is granted even though it could have saved months of suffering!

Experience is experience and I'm exhausted from it all!:thumbup:
 
The planet is still over populated.
yes its overpopulated with folks who run gas guzzling 4x4s for pleasure.....
whilst in not calling anyone who contributed to this thread a racist overpopulation is something that s used to argue that black ,brown & Asian folks are a problem.
about 15 to 20 percent of the worlds population live in developed countries & consume 75 percent of the worlds resources.
A more equitable distribution of resources would maybe see things like millon pound super cars disappear & luxuries like decent housing , health care & public services become more of a priority.
older folks are respected & play a full part in Spanish society.
Any Spanish pensioner , widow over the age of 55 or folks on disability benefit is entitled to subsidised holidays in the off season the objective being
"contributing to improving their quality of life , health & preventing them becoming dependent on others"
As someone in the social security system here im looking forward to retiring & going on the razz with the other gimmers. Anyone who is resident is entitled.Spain isnt a socialist paradise , not by a long chalk but society here hasn't given up on the underdog.
 
1.4 trillion in foreign aid doesn't seem to have changed much in Africa over 70 years .

I will get shot down for saying it i'm sure but while there was a lot wrong with the Rhodesia model it could have (with international support) evolved and expanded to the advantage of the entire continent and the world at large had Mugabe been a man of vision .

Balanced commerce is the key no sense in having lots to sell when nobody can afford to buy and tax on that commerce is supposed to be used to ensure nobody goes without necessities such as healthcare not bloody yachting marina's in towns that can't afford ambulances .
 
folks. please can we keep this civilised.
This COVID-19 shit is going to affect everyone. Not just old people, young people.

Please could we keep it civil and not targeting certain demographic of our fellow members.

We're all in for a bumpy ride so let's keep this corner of the world friendly :)

thanks
Crispin
 
yes its overpopulated with folks who run gas guzzling 4x4s for pleasure.....
whilst in not calling anyone who contributed to this thread a racist overpopulation is something that s used to argue that black ,brown & Asian folks are a problem.
about 15 to 20 percent of the worlds population live in developed countries & consume 75 percent of the worlds resources.
A more equitable distribution of resources would maybe see things like millon pound super cars disappear & luxuries like decent housing , health care & public services become more of a priority.
older folks are respected & play a full part in Spanish society.
Any Spanish pensioner , widow over the age of 55 or folks on disability benefit is entitled to subsidised holidays in the off season the objective being
"contributing to improving their quality of life , health & preventing them becoming dependent on others"
As someone in the social security system here im looking forward to retiring & going on the razz with the other gimmers. Anyone who is resident is entitled.Spain isnt a socialist paradise , not by a long chalk but society here hasn't given up on the underdog.
Apologies for the late reply.
I've been extremely busy being a "capitalist" working my backside off in my manual job providing for my family..

I'm curious. please, educate me.
How is it the far left manage to bring the topic of racism into every debate?

It certainly appears to be the case, when someone dares to have an opinion differing from there own, there favourite card comes out...
 
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