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Shame: RH & IR Cradock Ltd

whereisgibson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
307
TLDR; I embarked on a £17,370.66 overhaul of my 1997 HDJ80 with RH & IR Cradock Ltd. I am down £13000 on an unfinished car, with no end in sight, and left with the original problems I started with, plus new ones. The response has been that RH & IR Cradock Ltd are too busy to address their workmanship.

What follows is a complete, factual, and chronological account. I have highlighted in bold statements that I consider particularly relevant.

In my view I was:
- mislead on time frames
- mislead on estimates
- ignored when problems arose
- given weak excuses throughout

I would not recommend RH & IR Cradock Ltd based on my experiences.
 
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Chapter 1: Enquiry


22/09/2020, 14:25 - Martin: Hi, Martin here, we chatted earlier
22/09/2020, 14:39 - Martin: Wishlist / issues
New oem height suspension (to stay carpark friendly) and airbags in the back for towing
Clutch is juddery
Flywheel squeal
Gearbox feels like the unit is clunking, a mount perhaps
Rear locker not engaging
Wheels, bodywork, plastics made more presentable
28/09/2020, 18:32 - Martin: Hi Redacted, what are your thoughts?
28/09/2020, 19:29 - Redacted: Hi Martin, my sincerest apologies for not replying.
All of the above is perfectly repairable although I would prefer to Carry our an appraisal on the vehicle. The gearbox quite possibly wants to coMe out to sort the clutch and the clunking.... wheels can be re powder coated, and body and plastics tidied up here too.
Suspension at normal height is obtainable as is the airbags! the biggest question is when did you want all this attended to and what sort of budget are we working toward??
On a serious note give me a call tomorrow and we’ll discuss this further.
 
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20/11/2020, 11:24 - Martin: Hi Redacted, covid derailing all plans! Would an appraisal be possible Saturday 28th? I'd likely leave the vehicle with you for at least a week. It would at least need a service. Might I ring later today?
20/11/2020, 11:26 - Redacted: Yeah give me a call we’ll discuss something.
20/11/2020, 11:30 - Martin: when works? Free 12.30 to13.30, then 5pm onwards.
20/11/2020, 11:43 - Redacted: Ah lunchtime is cool
20/11/2020, 12:38 - Martin: Free?
20/11/2020, 12:53 - Redacted:
26/11/2020, 12:56 - Martin: Hi Redacted, just getting in touch to see if you're still OK for Saturday?
26/11/2020, 13:22 - Redacted: Hi yes Saturday is good. What time u thinking?
Early morning or late afternoon is best for me as I have other visitors between 11& 3ish
26/11/2020, 13:23 - Martin: Morning, how about 10? I'm coming from London
26/11/2020, 13:53 - Redacted: That should be awesome
26/11/2020, 13:56 - Martin: Cool. Would appreciate a lift to [redacted]? I've an 11.20 train back in
26/11/2020, 13:56 - Redacted: That’s no worries at all.
26/11/2020, 13:56 - Martin: Just need your address now
26/11/2020, 13:57 - Redacted: [redacted]
26/11/2020, 13:57 - Martin: Cool, see you around 10, I'll send a tracking link beforehand
28/11/2020, 07:09 - Martin: I'm using Waze to drive to [redacted], arriving at 9:23. Watch my drive in real-time on the Waze map! [redacted]
30/11/2020, 08:44 - Redacted: Hi Martin can I please have your address and email please?
30/11/2020, 08:48 - Martin: Sure
[redacted]
[redacted]
[redacted]
30/11/2020, 08:56 - Redacted: Thanks
30/11/2020, 09:26 - Redacted: Could I also please ask for a deposit payment towards works? We normally start with £1000.00 which goes on your account toward parts and materials etc. Kind regards
Bacs details
Sort [redacted]
Acc [redacted]
30/11/2020, 09:26 - Redacted: [redacted]
30/11/2020, 09:26 - Martin: Will do
30/11/2020, 09:46 - Redacted:
30/11/2020, 09:53 - Martin: Done
30/11/2020, 10:03 - Redacted: Thank you
 
03/12/2020, 11:08 - Martin: Hi Redacted, when would be good to call for an update? Today / Tomorrow / next week, etc?
03/12/2020, 11:10 - Redacted: Hi Martin as soon as we make a start I’ll give you a call with what we find
03/12/2020, 11:37 - Redacted: With regard to suspension bushings, did you want us to proceed with a full bushing kit? I am looking at your job sheet now and planning what parts I could order up ready
03/12/2020, 11:38 - Martin: I suppose that depends on how much we dig into the suspension overall, right? Probably worth a good looking at first and then determining what can be done and by when?
03/12/2020, 11:49 - Redacted: Ok. I’m also cautious you haven’t left me much tome for your return train journey as the end of December is looming with Christmas leave losing us most of it.
I will get the car in and report but you did advise the car wandered on the road?? Kind regards Redacted
03/12/2020, 11:56 - Martin: Well indeed right, its tough to say without having a look first. Maybe there are more urgent gremlins
03/12/2020, 12:06 - Redacted: No worries I’ll check it out first.
Is it imperative you have the car back before Christmas as it would seem a shame to have it back and not have had the most out of its visit here...

03/12/2020, 12:15 - Martin: It's not imperative, but much preferred. It will depend also on eg if it would have to come back anyway due to the speed of the bodyshop
03/12/2020, 12:26 - Redacted: Yes I understand.
09/12/2020, 12:08 - Martin: Morning Redacted, how's it going?
14/12/2020, 12:05 - Redacted: IMG-20201214-WA0000.jpg (file attached)
14/12/2020, 12:05 - Redacted: IMG-20201214-WA0001.jpg (file attached)
14/12/2020, 12:05 - Redacted: IMG-20201214-WA0002.jpg (file attached)
14/12/2020, 12:05 - Redacted: IMG-20201214-WA0004.jpg (file attached)
14/12/2020, 12:05 - Redacted: IMG-20201214-WA0005.jpg (file attached)
14/12/2020, 12:05 - Redacted: IMG-20201214-WA0003.jpg (file attached)
14/12/2020, 12:07 - Martin: The magic metal I'm aware of, hairline crack put in by [redacted]
14/12/2020, 12:08 - Martin: Took a few years for me to notice and fix this summer
14/12/2020, 12:34 - Martin: I'll give you a bell shortly just on another call
14/12/2020, 12:34 - Redacted: Hi Martin coGive me a call when your free.
14/12/2020, 12:34 - Redacted:
15/12/2020, 18:14 - Redacted: IMG-20201215-WA0000.jpg (file attached)
Hi Martin, as expected, she failed on her poor back axle...
15/12/2020, 18:15 - Redacted: I’ll try finalise the estimate In the morning and give you a call to discuss a plan.
15/12/2020, 18:19 - Martin: OK cheers for the headsup
16/12/2020, 10:31 - Martin: Morning, just in another call
16/12/2020, 10:31 - Redacted: No worries when ever
 
At this point the car has been in the garage 2 weeks and the above work has been appraised. No work has been authorised yet.

It is at this point that I and [redacted] agree that
- the rough max cost of the work, including bodywork, would be ~£17000 inc VAT;
  • "worst case"
  • including a 3" exhaust
  • new front and rear lockers
- the bodywork would be an estimated cost of ~£3600 + vat

I request a new quote for just the mechanicals, as if it were to be close to the "worst case" then the bodywork could wait - but more likely the £1100+Vat exhaust plus front and rear lockers would not be necessary.
 
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Chapter 3: The Work


What is becoming interesting is that in the space of two days, the bodywork goes from being potentially part of the original job "lifting the body shell and sending to our body shop" to now April.

At any rate I proceed as the mechanicals required doing.

1636568495785.png
 
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Whislt I have nothing confirming in writing that I asked to be put on the bodywork waiting list I have highlighted the areas that indicate that clearly an agreement has occurred, based on an expectation of ~3600+VAT in ~April/May

07/01/2021, 13:58 - Martin: Afternoon Redacted, happy new year
07/01/2021, 20:54 - Redacted: Hi Martin. And to you.
08/01/2021, 10:51 - Martin: How's all this lockdown going with you? Folks still coming in to work?
08/01/2021, 11:01 - Redacted: Yeah we’re going strong. New guys starts next week too
08/01/2021, 11:06 - Martin: Ah brilliant, well done
08/01/2021, 11:07 - Martin: How's R351KAF looking? Any further estimates / times as yet?
09/01/2021, 07:04 - Redacted: Have started collating parts for the project.
11/01/2021, 13:29 - Martin: Excellent. Please get your bodywork man to advice his estimate.
11/01/2021, 13:40 - Redacted: Yes will do.
20/01/2021, 13:11 - Martin: Hello Redacted. End of Jan coming up, how's 351 looking and what did the bodywork man say? Cheers
21/01/2021, 19:02 - Redacted: Hi Martin. A bit behind on schedule but we have started on 351. We are still awaiting some parts mostly those ex abroad however the gearbox is out showing a very poorly clutch.
I will email or give u a call regards to the estimate for full body off rustoration.
Hope your safe and well.
21/01/2021, 19:25 - Redacted: IMG-20210121-WA0005.jpg (file attached)
21/01/2021, 19:25 - Redacted: IMG-20210121-WA0006.jpg (file attached)
21/01/2021, 19:25 - Redacted: IMG-20210121-WA0007.jpg (file attached)
25/01/2021, 13:01 - Redacted: IMG-20210125-WA0002.jpg (file attached)
Here is sound evidence that your bushes were moonjed
 
It becomes apparent that the final bodywork estimate, part of the original estimate of ~£17000 (£3600+VAT) to overhaul HDJ80, still had not occurred. However, this would now be ~June. So this has now gone from potentially done in December, to April, to ~June. But I have already trusted and embarked on this journey.

1636569293528.png
 
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27/01/2021, 10:29 - Martin: Morning, saw your email re injectors. Not an unlimited budget have you a suspicion that they need addressing or it is a case of simply being easy to do at this point ?
27/01/2021, 13:40 - Redacted: Well the labour would be more efficient as were already removing the manifold and he rocker for the gaskets and clean up.
At the least they will only incur a test fee... but based on the mileage they may require some maintenance.
I would probably leave them if we weren’t stripping the manifolds but am thinking of use of time.
Hope that helps??
27/01/2021, 14:55 - Martin: Yup OK do it
27/01/2021, 14:55 - Martin: The rear diff locker hopefully was viable? It worked last year etc
 
No response to the question of my rear diff, originally costed at replacing for ~£500+VAT

Instead, a note that June is now June/July.

1636569857177.png

Not only has December gone to July, the bodywork is now no longer 3600+VAT as advised but now ~£9000.


1636570124835.png
 
I am now annoyed that a 'more accurate estimate' has been done which is more than double the original. It is clear that [redacted] provided an inaccurate original estimate. It is difficult to understand how this arose given [redacted] had HDJ80 for 6 weeks prior to starting any work on it, and I had repeatedly requested an accurate estimate.

Perhaps the state of the rear arches went unnoticed while up on the ramps having the rear axle replaced.
 
A new total was requested. As it stands the "worst case" estimate of ~£17000 is now near £22000.

1636571599737.png

1636571952324.png
 
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02/02/2021, 13:29 - Martin: Afternoon; all the non red items are needed? The rear diff actuator for example was not repairable nor the somewhat new calipers etc?
02/02/2021, 13:30 - Martin: Or these are still to be determined?
03/02/2021, 09:04 - Redacted: Hi Martin. All the items in black have been allocated and are here for the job. Originally you told me the front locker worked, so I removed that from the list, once we finish the rear axle we can test your existing locker and if it works the new one can be removed from the job.
05/02/2021, 12:57 - Redacted: Hi Martin. We’re drawing close to completion of mechanical works, can you please confirm,
Are we to fit a new exhaust? Or repair the tail, and refit the existing down pipe?

Are we sending the wheels for refurbishment before we refit them?

Please see some pics of recent works
05/02/2021, 12:58 - Martin: Do drop me the latest costs as that's quite a factor in the decision
05/02/2021, 12:59 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0001.jpg (file attached)
05/02/2021, 12:59 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0002.jpg (file attached)
05/02/2021, 12:59 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0004.jpg (file attached)
05/02/2021, 12:59 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0003.jpg (file attached)
05/02/2021, 13:04 - Martin: And what is left to do, aircon, airbags, acsd, etc?
05/02/2021, 13:08 - Redacted: The Ascd did is done.
Once on the floor we can measure for the airbags. And test the aircon.
05/02/2021, 13:09 - Martin: The original aircon pump regularly threw belts so it may not be as simple as a regas
05/02/2021, 13:10 - Redacted: Ok I’ll try get that updated at end of play today.
05/02/2021, 13:11 - Martin: Thanks. £1100+vat for an exhaust does seem a bit steep though I'll think regards the wheels.
05/02/2021, 13:13 - Redacted: Maybe it does but, our prices are very competitive for the spec & quality of our performance exhaust systems, hand made in Britain.
No worries they’re quite a quick turnaround, we had a set done last week
05/02/2021, 13:13 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0005.jpg (file attached)
05/02/2021, 13:16 - Martin: I would plan for the wheel refurb and caps pending the bill review.
05/02/2021, 13:20 - Redacted: No worries. Well refit the exhaust too and weld an elbow on the tail
05/02/2021, 17:23 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0006.jpg (file attached)
05/02/2021, 17:24 - Redacted: IMG-20210205-WA0007.jpg (file attached)
 
At this point I am disappointed, but understanding that this is somewhat bespoke work. I receive the final bill for the mechanical work, noting that the rear locker is still included:
1636572407132.png
1636572579883.png
 
I am making a point about the rear diff lock here as by now I have been told it would be tested, if found broken, it would be replaced - and if working, it would be kept. I have now a bill for a new one.

I have been charged for new calipers (when the old ones were maybe 4 years old), a rather pricey swivel set that I didn't ask for, and a rear diff that I know used to work.
 
It is only on my insistence now that I am double checking that work I am being told is necessary was actually required.

I cannot understand how any testing of my diff, or the new one, was done prior to this and have the same outcome, yet I had already been billed for it.


1636573143821.png
 
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Jeez, Martin... I feel your pain!

To be that deep into a rebuild and still with issues is horrible. If nothing else the comms trail shows some concerning issues relating to customer communication and expectation management. I hope you've since got things sorted?!?

On the bodywork question....

I've read through the quotes, and I think something went awry between the initial quote inc bodywork, and the second quote for pure mechanicals - in the first you have a total of 120 hours labour indicated, in the second it shows 100 hours - which I presume would leave only 20 hours for the bodywork related mechanical strip and rebuild, which is clearly nonsense.

Re-reading the original quote carefully, I read the bodywork and chassis work as being £4,000 + VAT - I think the 120 hours (£3600) is non-paint related labour.

The final bodywork-only quote shows a total of 70 hours labour on top of the actual paint works - so if nothing else, thats an extra 50 man-hours of non-paint shop labour, or £1,500+VAT <<edit - and the hourly rate went from £30ph to £40ph.... total increase therefore £2,200+VAT if my maths is correct>>

Sooo, if I've read this correct:

(a) You are being quoted an additional 50 hours of non-paint labour - presumably because the body and chassis were never separated originally, so essentially now two jobs - and higher hourly rate - net cost an extra £2,200+VAT;

(b) Bodywork has gone from £2500+VAT to £4135+VAT;

(c) Chassis work has gone from £1500+VAT to £1790+VAT.

Based on our own recent experience on bodywork, item (b) is a bit toppy, but not completely unreasonable, if that includes a full body respray (our body restoration and full custom paint, including shut-lines, wheel colour-matching, etc, was approx £4k all-in, but was not without some issues!).

I defer to some of the other members with more knowledge on the mechanic costs to comment on the rest.

I can only hope the key ring was a good one!
 
12/02/2021, 17:28 - Redacted: IMG-20210212-WA0002.jpg (file attached)
Wheels came back today. hub caps have gone to our painter to be done and we’re all finished
12/02/2021, 17:47 - Martin: Beautiful!
12/02/2021, 17:47 - Martin: When to collect and obviously the bill, when you can
12/02/2021, 18:19 - Redacted: Yeah no stress, I’ll get that to u Monday, hub caps probly be done end the week.
15/02/2021, 16:53 - Martin: Hi Redacted just confirm for me the sat max height of the LC?
15/02/2021, 16:54 - Redacted:
15/02/2021, 17:26 - Redacted: IMG-20210215-WA0002.jpg (file attached)
Scrapes at 1940mm
Tolerance 1950mm
15/02/2021, 17:27 - Martin: OK thanks
15/02/2021, 17:27 - Martin: Would this Saturday work for collecting it? Caps back by then?
15/02/2021, 17:28 - Redacted: No worries. I meant to say also, I scoured my stock of sores and all my spare headlights have moonjed washers. Perhaps I can try source some units for a later date.
15/02/2021, 17:29 - Martin: So when the washer runs is there a pipe just spewing or was it clamped off?
15/02/2021, 17:32 - Redacted: The headlight washer is on its own switch, separate from the windscreen & rear window. So yours will spew onto the car in front of you But only if you press the button.
15/02/2021, 17:32 - Redacted: The truck runs and drives very well,
The gearbox is better than my blue one. 3rd - 2nd is great.
15/02/2021, 17:35 - Martin: Good stuff. Out of curiosity the other airbag helpers I've seen mostly filled the height of the springs, I take it these ones can do the job OK?
15/02/2021, 17:37 - Martin: I mean you've obviously used them for a reason I'm just curious how they work
15/02/2021, 17:40 - Redacted: Yeah of course, they’re only helpers... they’re designed to limit the downward compression under extreme loading, the ones you’ve seen would have just been taller, as it was we had to trim off 2x of the rings on each dislocation cone for them to fit... taller bags would have needed full removal of the dislocation cones.
When deflated they don’t really impede the cars suspension but once inflated 10-30psi
The spring will not be able to compress as easily.
15/02/2021, 17:42 - Martin: And I'll get the train sorted etc
 
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