Starter problem

G

Guest

Guest
I have what I think is a common starter problem. The motor is engaged
and won't disengage. I have now got the car with the batteries
disconnected and silenced the alarm. I assume the starter relay must
be stuck in but where is it? It does not look to me as if it is on the
motor itself. Any clues would be appreciated. Thanks.
Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive
As you say this is not uncommon on these beasts, and happened to me about 3 months ago. The "relay" is really part of the starter assembly itself, it isn't separate, and you have to remove and dismantle the starter to fix the problem.
What happened to me was that the contacts within the starter got worn and a bit distorted, and they fouled the shaft stopping it from disengaging. I didn't see it myself, but that is how the chap who fixed it described it to me. He dismantled the starter, cleaned up the innards, replaced the contacts and reinstalled it for about =A390. (He's on a trading estate in Exeter if that's any use to you, his telephone number is 01392 277252 if you want to ring him to discuss it or arrange a visit.)
He attributed the cause to a deadish cell in one battery that was failing to make it engage with enough oomph, causing the contacts to arc excessively, so I replaced both batteries (another =A3100).
So if you get it rebuilt, or do it yourself, make sure you check the batteries too: if you have a hygrometer check the specific gravity of all 12 cells, and also look for dark bits in the acid which is a sign of impending death. Or get them discharge tested, and if this is done make sure the batteries are disconnected from each other before testing.
Sorry, a bit vague because I didn't do it myself, but I hope it helps.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
|I have what I think is a common starter problem. The motor is engaged
|and won't disengage. I have now got the car with the batteries
|disconnected and silenced the alarm. I assume the starter relay must
|be stuck in but where is it? It does not look to me as if it is on the
|motor itself. Any clues would be appreciated. Thanks.
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Christopher,
Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if it was the starter or the
12/24v solenoid that gave problems. I will get the starter off. I
think you can get a contact set for these motors, if anyone has any
info on that Please chip in. My batteries are both nearly new.
It looks as if I might be Xmas without it.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive
It *could* be the changeover switch I suppose. You can check that in
two ticks with a multimeter: (I'm assuming that both batteries are fully
disconnected)
Check on the low resistance scale for connection between LHS (looking
forward) battery -ve terminal connector and chassis earth. If it is in
parallel (correct) it should show zero resistance, but if it is stuck in
series (wrong) it should be open circuit because it will be connected to
the +ve terminal connector for the RHS battery, which should show zero
ohms instead.
But I think it's more likely to be the starter contacts. There is a
write-up on the Slee Offroad site
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_starter_rebuild.htm although I
assume this is for a 12v US petrol engined starter. I printed this out
and gave it to the bloke who did mine, but he said it was much easier
than this write-up states.
CB
|Christopher,
|
| Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if it was the starter or the
|12/24v solenoid that gave problems. I will get the starter off. I
|think you can get a contact set for these motors, if anyone has any
|info on that Please chip in. My batteries are both nearly new.
|
| It looks as if I might be Xmas without it.
|
| Regards, Clive.
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
Don't like the adverts? Remove them by becoming a supporting member.   Click here
G

Guest

Guest
Christopher,
LHS battery neg is 0.6 Ohms, RHS battery pos is 23.5 Ohms. Does
this strike you as correct? Thanks.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Starter motor positive to earth is only 0.5 Ohms. This should be open
circuit. Looks like the starter relay.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive
0=2E6 ohms to earth sounds close enough to zero to me - slight contact
resistance and lack of meter accuracy could account for that figure.
23.5 ohms from LHS battery +ve to ground: that's about a 6 watt bulb -
did you have a door open somewhere?
Both LHS -ve and RHS +ve would show the same values if the c/o switch
was stuck in the series position as they would be connected together.
So it sounds to me as if your changeover relay is OK and that it is
indeed the contacts inside the starter. The low resistance from starter
+ve to ground rather confirms that as you say.
CB
|Christopher,
|
| LHS battery neg is 0.6 Ohms, RHS battery pos is 23.5 Ohms. Does
|this strike you as correct? Thanks.
|
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive wrote...
I assume the starter relay must
be stuck in but where is it? It does not look to me as if it is on the
motor itself. Any clues would be appreciated.
SNIP
Clive I can't add anything to Chris's comments as I don't know about
the 24v starting. But you did ask about the relay in particular and
not the solenoid which is very obviously mounted on the starter as
you know. On my 12v 1HZ I do have a relay which is tucked into the
LHS wing accessed through one of the voids that are stamped out and
lined with a ring of rubber trim stuck round the edge. Very useful
for protecting the wrists when working inside ! So would there not be
one on the 24v also? But what do I know.
Even in Hayes there is a procedure for testing the relay via the
contacts - and it works.
I have not only replaced the starter contacts but also had to realign
them a couple of times too. One of them has a slotted mounting hole
which allows adjustment for erosion. The mounting bolt on that side
having serrations at the top of the shank just below the head with
which to grip the sides of the contact's slot.
You will have to carve out a block of hardwood with which to press
down on both contacts simultaneously with great force to get them
level. I think the FSM tells you to use a huge force, something like
150kg or whatever. But I just put my not inconsiderable beef on the
block with the motor clamped in a vicelike workbench to get it
aligned. Apart from using coarse sandpaper on the copper contact ring
on the solenoid plunger and cleaning the plunger and barrel with some
meths, I re-assemble with silicone grease. Also watch out for a
single small ball located in the body of the solenoid under the thin
coiled return spring that fits in the middle of the plunger.
Doing a starter overhaul is really very simple with no rocket science
involved, but the worst thing is getting the thing off the engine and
out of the void. Undo the bottom bolt then leave the top nut on a few
threads. Then you really need to have a workbench alongside the wing
to kneel on allowing you to get well down into the void and wriggle
the damned thing out ! Enjoy.
cheers
Jon
Tring, Herts
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jon,
Thanks for that information. I will probably be doing this
tomorrow and this will come in usefull. The motor looks as if it will
come out from under the car a bit easier. I did ask about the relay,
The Ellery's manual that I have has a wiring diagram and that points
to a stuck relay.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jon,
you were right about it not being rocket science. I found the
terminals out of line. I did not quite get the 150k push bit, I just
lifted the worn terminal up to the level of the other one (no kits
available over the hols). Thanks for the help.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive
Did you take any photos by any chance?
Christopher Bell
|Jon,
|
| you were right about it not being rocket science. I found the
|terminals out of line. I did not quite get the 150k push bit, I just
|lifted the worn terminal up to the level of the other one (no kits
|available over the hols). Thanks for the help.
|
| Regards, Clive.
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Christopher,
No I did not. I do have a good exploded diagram that I now know
to be accurate if that is of any good to you.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive wrote...
you were right about it not being rocket science. I found the
terminals out of line. I did not quite get the 150k push bit, I just
lifted the worn terminal up to the level of the other one (no kits
available over the hols). Thanks for the help.
SNIP
Thanks Clive, so I guess the easy route of checking the relay inside
the wing was not the solution !
I apologise for not mentioning one thing that may be of use for
others. I first came across this contact problem in Bosnia where
spares are in short supply, so all my repairs had a belt and braces
approach to avoid an early repetition of the problem. The 'burning'
contact was badly damaged, so I had to file it off more or less flat
again to avoid the plunger contact jamming. But I was also wary of
the height adjustment holding out for the duration - those teeth on
the bolt shank biting' into the soft copper of the contact just did
not convince me. So I found a suitable piece of hard plastic, and
shaped it to fit snugly under the now slightly raised contact, thus
hopefully providing some support to the contact and thus relieve the
stress on the 'adjustment'. It worked without fault thankfully until
I managed to get some contacts sent out from UK.
Cheers
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jon,
I considered swapping the contacts over. I chose not to as the
one that is prone to burning has a bit brazed in to it as the contact,
I assume this bit is harder than the copper that makes up the rest.
Did you notice this on yours?
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive wrote...
I considered swapping the contacts over. I chose not to as the
one that is prone to burning has a bit brazed in to it as the contact,
I assume this bit is harder than the copper that makes up the rest.
Did you notice this on yours?
SNIP
No sorry Clive, I didn't have that and the new contacts eventually
fitted were pure copper too. Though at the time of the original
problem someone on Lcool suggested I filled the burnt-out groove with
silver solder. So is that a previous repair or a feature of the 24v
contacts I wonder?
Cheers
Jon
Tring, Herts
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jon,
If it is a previous repair then it was very well done. My guess
is that it was original, the vehicle is only on 130,000 or so and the
other contact was very good, although that would be so anyway. I can
braze but for that I would not bother. If I needed to repair it I
would bend up a new contact from copper.
Regards, Clive.
 
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks