Tapping noise from front when turning under power

[StarCruiser]

Hi all, time to introduce myself (well a bit more officially as I have posted a few times elsewhere recently). I'm Richard, based just outside Bognor Regis and have had an import 81 since 2004 with around 120k on the clock now. I'm an electrician by trade but work on most things.

Anyway, recently I have noticed a tapping sound coming from under the front of the truck when I turn right. Happens more under power and sounds like someone tapping an upturned yoghurt pot repeatedly with a pencil and is road speed related and multiple times per wheel rotation. And seems to be getting worse.

Investigation so far:-

Not wheels rubbing or anything like that.
Greased all UJs, still the same.
Drained and refilled front diff oil, some greenish contamination but this is first time it's been changed in 60,000 miles. Still same.
Am now in the process of pulling the CV joints. Got the near side one out yesterday and apart from being easy to move (not tight like new but not slack either) cannot see anything immediately obvious. Due to fully clean today and pull the other side. These have been out before around 20k ago and so far don't show any signs of being any different.

Before pulling apart, I jacked up one wheel and with no diff locks in, I rotated the wheel back and forth. There was probably 30 degrees of movement taking up the backlash in the drivetrain back to the transfer box, beyond which the auto box was in park. I seemed to get a few taps from the near side wheel hub but difficult to tell so decided to pull to have a look. Which has, of course, made it snow here [emoji45].

I'm still in the process and figure I will change internal seals although they seem good and probably do the roller bearing upgrade and new rotors at this time. I might even replace the knuckle seals again as I'm in here but not certain they need it.

So, any thoughts? Could I be barking up the wrong tree perhaps?

All thoughts gratefully received.

Richard

 

[clivehorridge]

Tapping, or usually described as a clicking, is normally worn CVs, AKA "Birfield" joints.

Some fail altogether soon after the clicking starts, others go for thousands of kms before failing. Some even fail without any warning. It's a lottery really.

With 120k (miles or kms?) on the clock, it's anyone's guess really.

have you any signs of oil leaking from the "cannonball" wiper sieals, or dripping/damp at the steering arm studs? That's usually a sign that diff oil is getting past the drive shaft oil seal into the cannonball where the CV is, diluting the grease in the CV causing premature failure.

The tapping could be something else entirely, of course, just MHO....

PS, welcome to the forum, BTW, nice intro, I've seen you posting....

 

[adrianr]

With Clive's suggestion.

Also worth checking there is oil in the front diff too. When i got mine its wasn't leaking since it had all drained out long ago. Causing me to need a replacement front diff as part of the front axle overhaul.

 

[Towpack]

Does it make the noise when reversing and turning? CV's usually wear in one direction so if the tapping is still there when reversing it could be something else IMO.

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks for the replies and welcome.

Bit more history. The vehicle is a 1994 (EDIT, not 2004 d'oh) model with (I think) the uprated or extended CV splines.
A while back, after noticing oily gunk around both my knuckles (which in fairness had been there soon after purchase with 90,000km on the clock), I pulled the hubs and knuckles apart having pre ordered a complete set of bits from Roo Dogs 4wd in Aus. The bits were all fine except the CVs which were short on the spline (I still have them, any interest/offers anyone?) so the perfectly good CVs went back in as I suspected they were genuine Toyota. The grease was somewhat diluted but still seemed to be where it should be and there seemed to be little wear on the CV tracks. The other reason to pull them last time was a slight clicking which turned out to be a loose wheel bearing. Apart from having to revisit the offside wheel bearing that had come loose (didn't have the benefit of all the info on here at the time) all has been fine since until now.

Diff had plenty of oil in it. I hadn't even looked at it since purchase which was probably not the best plan but there was no mayonnaise, just a bit of contamination from the CV grease. Drained it and filled back up with EP.

I don't do much off roading, in fact have only really started in the last year to 18 months, and then only lightly, as I use the truck mainly for work.

I was pretty sure the tapping/clicking was in the near side knuckle but it was tricky to pinpoint. I will have to see once I have cleaned and inspected the Birfields. I also plan to remove and check the diff at this point.

Having to take a day out today and probably tomorrow. Time to psych myself up for it.

Richard

 

[StarCruiser]

Does it make the noise when reversing and turning? CV's usually wear in one direction so if the tapping is still there when reversing it could be something else IMO.

Good thought, thanks. I don't recall hearing anything, though I wouldn't normally reverse at the same take off speed I do on a right turn forwards so difficult to tell.

More general info that I've left out is that it's a 4.2 12 valve turbo and no I haven't done the BEBs yet but I am going to…very soon after scaring myself half to death. Also the car was converted to miles at 90,000 Km and shows about 155,000 so around 120,000 total miles. It looked like it had just come out of the factory when I got it after pootling around Fukushima all its life. And we all know where that is now don't we. I often wondered why it glowed blue in the dark. [emoji6][emoji15]

 

[Chas]

I often wondered why it glowed blue in the dark. [emoji6][emoji15]

Definitely sounds like CV's, but could it be a built in Geiger counter?

 

[clivehorridge]

Definitely sounds like CV's, but could it be a built in Geiger counter?

Bravo Chas, cracked it!

 

[StarCruiser]

I'm impressed Chas, hadn't thought of that. You could be on to something there. Do you think Toyota had a factory fit Geiger counter option for the Fukushima area?
[emoji6]

 

[Dave2000]

2004 is a late 80 cruiser was they still making them then? CV clatter is quite common when they get a few miles on, it is also common practice to swap the CV's and get a new lease of life as they are running on different wear surfaces.

regards

Dave

 

[StarCruiser]

Well spotted Dave, you get the prize. 2004 would be a very late 80. My single functioning overworked brain cell had a hiccup there. [emoji21] I might well consider a swap over if all else is in good nick. Fortunately I have access to non destructive testing facilities so I will most probably get all bits checked for cracks before I put them back again.

 

[Dave2000]

Hey, you think it is bad having one brain cell? Try having two, mine fight all the time!!

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

One of your lockers isn't stuck on is it? CVJ's click more readily when steering with the lockers on. At least mine do very slight ticking on full steering lock with on lockers but silent off lockers.

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks Frank, easy answer to that one, the only locker is the centre one, being an import it lacks front and rear lockers. [emoji20]Its something I wasn't aware of but have learned since I bought it. I had thought about ARBs front and rear but might well stop at a rear one if I do at all to avoid mullering the CVs. I'm not into extreme off roading, truth is, I really hate mud!! I just want a bit of an insurance policy IF I ever need it. Haven't yet found a situation where I need it and that was on road tyres.

 

[frank rabbets]

With your mileage they are most likely original CVJ's. They last for a very long time especially if packed with too much grease. I'm not at all concerned with mine which have done 140,000 miles.

 

[clivehorridge]

With your mileage they are most likely original CVJ's. They last for a very long time especially if packed with too much grease. I'm not at all concerned with mine which have done 140,000 miles.

I hope you were touching wood when you typed that Frank...

(and I don't mean in the way all you lot are thinking, either....)

 

[StarCruiser]

With your mileage they are most likely original CVJ's. They last for a very long time especially if packed with too much grease. I'm not at all concerned with mine which have done 140,000 miles.

Good to know, thanks, and yes I really cannot imagine that they would have been changed before I had it, and I've only re packed them so I expect them to be original. Might get the other one out today, if not tomorrow. No point guessing at it, I'm going to pull both sides and the diff and have a good look, then put good oil, CV grease and bearing grease in. I made the mistake of putting CV grease in the bearings. So far this doesn't seem to have caused a problem. Inspection should reveal all…or nothing, in which case back to the drawing board, but at least I will have peace of mind for the front at least and will have changed the rotors which I was planning on doing soon.

 

[clivehorridge]

One of my CVs failed and I can't for the life of me understand how or why. After stripping it down, the ball bearings were all loose lying in the bottom of the cannonball, but not damaged. Both the inner race and the outer race looked good and damage-free. The driveshaft was broken inside the inner race, but the splines were still engaged in the inner. It will always be a mystery to me.

I would replace them as a matter of precaution, and because I'm too lazy to relish doing a job twice! I would also make an effort to change the drive shaft seals while it's stripped down, they often fail and cause the CV failures.

 

[StarCruiser]

Ok, continuing with the strip down today and found why my (and possibly others too??) wheel bearings needed tightening up a while after doing the knuckle seals last time.

Looks like I caught the dust seal on reassembly on the drivers side.
Oh dear!! [emoji20] not my finest hour.

 

[Dave2000]

Every CV I have pulled out thus far that was definitely an original had a dab of pink paint on the shoulder, anyone else found this?


regards

Dave