tow ropes, underbody protection

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Hi Guys
Here I am again with more questions about more things.
Has anyone any knowledge or experience of the KINETIC tow ropes,
are they any good, do they do what they say on the tin, are they any use on
road or just for off road use.
When thinking about underbody protection for the cruiser is there any thing
that must be taken into concideration.
The diffs are the lowest part of the cruiser in the centre so would you
angle the protection to this lower point or would it be best to have a
seperate diff guards.
Would there be any issues with drag or heat issues or anything that I would
not think about given my limited mecanical knowledge.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT Rep of Ireland
 
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John,
Kinetic ropes are a special use item and you can do a lot of
damage with them if you are not clued up, I don't want one and I think
you will be better off with a normal rope. The diffs on cruisers are
pretty robust so guards are not normally fitted, they are also nearly
impossible to find. You are going to have to be going over some rough
terrain to need them.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Hi John
As Clive said Kinetic tow ropes are for specialist use.
You are likely to kill yourself, or anyone in the vicinity of the
vehicles, if it goes wrong! This is NO overstatement! BOTH vehicles will
need Strengthened attachment points, with people in both who know what
they're doing. It makes me shudder just thinking about it.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: 02 April 2006 10:42
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] tow ropes, underbody protection
Hi Guys
Here I am again with more questions about more things.
Has anyone any knowledge or experience of the KINETIC tow ropes,
are they any good, do they do what they say on the tin, are they any use on
road or just for off road use.
When thinking about underbody protection for the cruiser is there any thing
that must be taken into concideration.
The diffs are the lowest part of the cruiser in the centre so would you
angle the protection to this lower point or would it be best to have a
seperate diff guards.
Would there be any issues with drag or heat issues or anything that I would
not think about given my limited mecanical knowledge.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT Rep of Ireland
 
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Hey Clive
I was just wondering if anyone had experience of them. They do seem like a
good idea but as you point out the use of one is different to ordinary tow
ropes. Thats why i was wondering about their use or usfullness on the road.
I spent some time under the cruiser just looking and guessing and wondering
without actually knowing which im very good at.
And it seems to me that there are several vunerable points under there.
The front where all the steering and rods are is very open to damage, the
gearbox pan is saying here I am you big rock I dare you to put a hole in me.
The rear with no spare wheel under there is a hugh gap waiting to gobble up
a rock only to get it trapped behind the tow bar and try and pull it off.
The fuel tank seems fine position wise and protected aswell.
The centre exhaust box and other bits seem to be also exposed and again
crying out tear into me if you can mr rock, or other sharp object.
I know about the diff guards I haven't found any but if it was a LR no
problem at all to get them.
cheers
john
92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Be careful not to confuse a "kinetic" recovery rope and a KERR (=Kinetic
Energy Recovery Rope).
The latter is the specialist rope that can do much damage and
destruction in the wrong hands.
A "kinetic" recovery rope however is a nylon tow / recovery rope. They
have some stretch in them to take up the shock loading of towing and
recovering compared to polypropylene (halfrauds type cheap tow-rope)
which have no stretch at all. Nothing wrong with, or dangerous about a
"kinetic" rope.
A KERR is another matter altogether and I won't touch them with a barge
pole!!!
I keep three "kinetic" ropes in the boot, all of varying lengths and I
wouldn't be without them.
Pete
Rob Edwards wrote:
 
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On 2/4/06 19:13, "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
I have a KERR rope and so far, never had cause to use it. I've helped on
another recovery using KERR ropes and when used properly, they are fantastic
at getting grounded vehicles out of dunes and sand in particular. In the
desret, winches are almost useless and KERR straps can often be the only
thing that will move a vehicle. Apart from plenty of digging...But as all
previous notes have said, they can be dangerous if misused, but then so can
most things.
Unless you're going to the Sahara, conventional tow straps will do the
business.
Don't bother with diff guards even if you can find them. Toyota diffs are
much stronger than LRs and if you fit a guard you reduce the ground
clearance. I have a metal plate that protects the steering and some steel
grill in the ARB to stop big stones flying into the rad and oil cooler for
the a/t. Some people add plates for the transfer box and fuel tank but the
undersides are pretty tough.
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
HDJ81, looking forward to some sunny weather although our garden needs rain.
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
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Hi Guys
The reason i was asking is there are a few on ebay with explanations on how
to use them when a vehicle is bogged down. I just thought this was
interesting enough to ask about them.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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On 4/2/06, Peter Browning <[Email address removed]> wrote:
c
Peter,
There is no difference between "kintetic recovery rope" and "kinetic
energy recovery rope". Has anyone seen a rope for towing another
vehicle using kinetic energy? Any vendor calling an ordinary rowing
rope "kinetic" can be sued under the Description of Goods Act.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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There is a big difference!
Rightly or wrongly nylon recovery ropes are termed "kinetic" ropes to
distinguish them from the non-stretch polyproylene or sisal ones. They
are colloquially termed "kinetic" because they do stretch (by about 20%
of their at-rest length) under load and so do store some kinetic energy
which helps to smooth out the shock loads and also aids in recovery
pulling. These however are not snatch-ropes or KERR straps / ropes. KERR
ropes / straps are specially designed ropes that will stretch to at
least double their at-rest length, a bit like a big elastic band.
Calling the nylon ropes "kinetic" ropes is a little confusing for some I
know but that IS what they are called which is why I said not to confuse
the two.
Oh yes, a KERR rope is usually also identified by a red or blue "thread"
running along the length of the rope. This also acts as a safety / wear
indicator - if the thread is discontinuous then the rope has been over
stretched and should not be used.
Pete
Roman wrote:
 
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On 4/3/06, Peter Browning <[Email address removed]> wrote:
Ahaaaa, now I understand!
It's like we colloquially call Thames Water a "public utility"
company, or the rainy season lasting in this country for 10 months "a
prolonged drought" :)
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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Now then JB look at what you've gone and started !
JB wrote...
When thinking about underbody protection for the cruiser is there any thing
that must be taken into concideration.
The diffs are the lowest part of the cruiser in the centre so would you
angle the protection to this lower point or would it be best to have a
seperate diff guards.
SNIP
As for under protection. How is it that I can crawl all over the
rocky Balkans for 6 years without any plates underneath and you are
thinking of them for your peat wallowing week-ends ? (By the way,
look at the diffs again, they are not in the centre, they are offset.
You should always be aware of that when you are lining yourself up
along a track with several ruts to straddle). The only time I have
been unable to pick my way ahead is when I go through my regular two
river fords, but I have still not worried unduly as fords are a
more-or-less level track anyway as long as they are in regular use. I
am more concerned that my extended axle breathers are working when fording.
If I had the inclination I would put a thick ally plate at the front
to protect the steering. The 8mm ally plate at the front of my Pajero
impresses me, and I think I nudged it once when out with the Paj club
on the Plain with no damage done to it. Otherwise I see no point in
putting any more protection underneath. (Anyway you have a lift as well).
I think Clive wrote that to get such plates would not be easy to
acquire anyway, and he is dead right. Its a shame we are not in Oz or
RSA where they have all the goodies to hand. To get them made will be
easy enough if you have the cash, but they will likely be very heavy
steel. There are not so many jobbing welders who have ally of the
right quality or who have the skills and equipment to bend and weld
it without weakening its parent metal strength. Not a job for a local
blacksmith unfortunately. HTH
Cheers
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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On 4/3/06, Jon C-W <[Email address removed]> wrote:
Jon,
While skilful driving and low speed obviates the need for any
protection, don't underestimate the effect of lack of concentration or
misjudgement, e.g. due to tiredness or poor visibility.
I have a steel pot welded on top of the front diff, made of 6mm
pressed steel. It has saved me at least once (as evidenced by a dent
about 3-4 mm deep). I figure I hit a small rock hidden in the grass at
30-40 mph. That happened in Africa. But if I used my LC just for
antics in the mud or greenlaning, I probably wouldn't bother with any
protection at all.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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Hey Jon-C-W
When I am thinking about protection for the cruiser I work on the idea that
maybe its cheaper to get the protection and have piece of mind and be
reasonably happy that I will not have a large repair bill plus have to go
through the pain of possibilly getting towed out by a LR.
Not to mention getting it lifted to home as its an auto.
See I dont know how strong all these bits are under there and a lot seems to
be exposed when maybe I could cover them.
Its just my way of thinking that if it will go bad well it will.
Ah Jon the simple answer to below is you are you , lots of experience , the
know how, mecanically minded, and im me who worries a lot about repair
bills. Jon I know where the diffs are I just related them to the middle,
cause they are in the middle of the chassis members rather than to the sides
of the cruiser.
SNIP
As for under protection. How is it that I can crawl all over the rocky
Balkans for 6 years without any plates underneath and you are thinking of
them for your peat wallowing week-ends ? (By the way,
look at the diffs again, they are not in the centre, they are offset.
You should always be aware of that when you are lining yourself up
along a track with several ruts to straddle).
I talked to a guy about making protection and he suggested 5mm steel plate
and then said he did not know if he would be interested in doing it because
the plate is heavy and he would be working lifting this plate.
Ah sure I soldier on.
cheers
John 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Roman wrote...
While skilful driving and low speed obviates the need for any
protection, don't underestimate the effect of lack of concentration or
misjudgement, e.g. due to tiredness or poor visibility.
I have a steel pot welded on top of the front diff, made of 6mm
pressed steel. It has saved me at least once (as evidenced by a dent
about 3-4 mm deep). I figure I hit a small rock hidden in the grass at
30-40 mph. That happened in Africa. But if I used my LC just for
antics in the mud or greenlaning, I probably wouldn't bother with any
protection at all.
SNIP
Agreed Roman, but our old mate JB is having a hell of a time
walloping around his new offroad course. So much so that he is in no
way getting tired or suffering poor visibility - unless he tries to
do it at night using his new driving lamps. My suggestion refers to
such pleasure use as you also mention in your last sentence. I would
naturally expect to fit underbody protection in the more serious
conditions to which you first refer. Lets not get carried away here
or JB will be upset - he's enjoying himself too much ;-)
(Not taking your name in vain JB)
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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