VED rates, new Highway Code rules, victim status for cyclists.....

[Odin 8]

Morning fellow Petrol & Diesel Heads. Just reading my on-line news feeds and bellow the dross of Alcoholic parlimentary business meetings, Princes up the creek without oars blah blah, what really concerns me is rising road tax based on emissions and cyclists who get victim status. Something else that boils my p1$$ is free road tax for electric cars and certain newer motors that still occupy road space without any backlash from other motorists.
So what am I driving at here apart from moaning? Most folk who I know work off their own backs, from cleaners, trades men and drivers. All pay their own way and do not rely on some government hand out to fund their life style, vehicle and holidays abroad. The other half can be proven that their income is from some kind of government wage or initiative that allows the purchase of newer vehicles and free road tax status. These can be 'honest jobs' like nursing or local government cleaning/street lights/schools etc. Others are merely 'jobs worths' funded by the local council.
If these school kids that call them selves 'parliamentarians', the majority whom have never had a job carry on penalising those of us who actually go to work to make ends meet, and carry on down this high tax road, the point is coming when it aint worth going out to work. That time is close and it is happening under a 'conservative' government whom, to me are every bit 'socialist-liberals' as the other showers. Very soon, 'we', will not we working to pay the contributions to fund their socialist life styles in the name of 'global warming'.
In my book, anyone, whatever political creed or party colour, who depends on government raised income is in the 'socialist' bracket to a greater or lesser degree.
So what is my beef? As a motor mechanic I have always depended on some kind of Land Rover utility truck or diesel van to make a living. I see T0$$£r% taking their kids to school and shopping in brand spanking 4WDs (Chelsea Tractors) and we all get financially punished. So now my present work truck is a 23 year old Landcruiser, and a working truck it will be, like others, we are funding these 'free cars'.
As for cyclists. There is the serious cyclists, clubs, out in their groups keeping fit who most probably all own a car. Some commute to work, fair play to them. Then theres them types dressed in black, no lights, flying along the pavement or road, or whatever suits them best in that split second. No police stopping them because it is no longer on the Police Agenda. (Our Police operate on Agenda, not Law, thats my opinion based on experience). So if you are now involved in an RTA with one of these 'cyclists' and they go under your Landcruiser 285x35 /16 with umpteen quids worth of VED paid plus insurance, its your fault. Probably it will be the same if you collide with some nobb taking the kids to school in their electric car with free VED. It will be your fault and if the Federal Police Agency are involved, their agenda will be to prosecute the nasty 4WD driver, even worse if its a Japanese make.
I'm off for a walk to think where I can emigrate to? Africa is tempting. They won't be sticking windmills up to drive electric cars. Landcruiser will remain King out there for the forseable future.

 

[Shayne]

Before you do i will pass on some advice from a friend of mine who lived and worked in Africa a few years .

If you run somebody over then reverse back over them and run them over again because if he dies your unlikely to get into trouble , but if he lives and is disabled your likely to be ordered to keep him and his family for the rest of your days .

 

[frank rabbets]

Had the cycle been invented today I don't think you would be aloud to use it on the road. Take electric scooters, you can't use them in any public space! Had the horse been invented today you defo would not be allowed to ride it down the road. Some people like horses and cycles but to me they are just a real annoyance especially when they ride or cycle two abreast which I believe is perfectly legal?

 

[karl2000]

In my book, anyone, whatever political creed or party colour, who depends on government raised income is in the 'socialist' bracket to a greater or lesser degree.

Remember a lot of people with ordinary jobs now rely on tax credits, because their employers (eg the royal household) have been encouraged not to pay employees enough to survive. Unfortunately we have a low wage economy, in a country with a high cost of living and house prices.

Personally I think tax credits should be scrapped and the minimum wage raised enough so that normal people can survive.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Some people like horses and cycles but to me they are just a real annoyance especially when they ride or cycle two abreast which I believe is perfectly legal?

I feel the same about people who think they have some special extra privilege to use the road because they are directing a few tons of steel, spewing fumes. And I say this as a driver of a few tons of steel that spews fumes, but also rides a bike where possible because I can often go about my business in a far more space and energy efficient manner. And I ride it two abreast, although only when I'm chatting to someone; I never just have an empty seat next to me blocking other road users, that would be the height of selfishness. It is of course not only legal but makes it far easier to overtake because I've halved the distance another vehicle needs to be on the other side of the road, because no one would be so stupid as to try and pass between me and on-coming traffic

 

[karl2000]

Why can't bikes have a registration plate and insurance?

 

[Andy]

Why can't bikes have a registration plate and insurance?

Clap clap clap…… can’t seem to add the emoji!

 

[Towpack]

Had the horse been invented today you defo would not be allowed to ride it down the road.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have free licence to shit in the street. A fresh pile is lethal on a motorcycle!

 

[Jacob100]

Yawn

 

[Shayne]

True story and quite recent , uncle of mine reversing out of a car park at his local fuel station shop knocked an old lady on her ass . Typical him he told the stupid cow to watch where she is going and drove off .

Banned .

I figured this is going a real issue for him because he's not very academic and its something of a mystery how he tolerated being told what to do long enough to pass his driving test as a young man .

Fluck em he said i bought myself a horse and cart . He never explained exactly how it came about but they gave him his driving licence back a couple of months ago

 

[Odin 8]

I don't have a problem with other road users, be them bikes, cyclists, on foot, tractors, horses nor buses. My beef is 'Victim Status' and those who contribute the most financially as some find of 'fair game'. (As for electric scooters, that's another subject).
This next round of VED increase is aimed at those (of us) who drive and use a diesel truck, light commercial vehicle. Yet I do not think that 'we' are the greatest cost on the roads. The greatest 'cost' comes from the high accident types. Living near the M62 on the Pennines we get many RTAs, as I'm sure many do who live near motorways or fast roads. Take note of the 'accident types'. Chelsea Tractors, Audis, BMW. Often with low VED rates. As for electrics & hy-brids, not sure what is going on there but I believe the Rescue Services operate very differently when there is a Big Battery involved in a crash. Still free VED.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Why can't bikes have a registration plate and insurance?

I think the simple anser is they can. But what is the point, what are we trying to achieve? Fewer deaths and injuries from bad riding? The numbers are so massively skewed to motor vehicles it's a sticking palster on a disembowling. And is it even a sticking plaster? That huge skew to problems caused by motor vehicles is inspite of them all having number plates and insurance.

As an aside evryone I ride with (two abreast) has specific 3rd party cycle insurance.

 

[Rob Cowell]

This next round of VED increase is aimed at those (of us) who drive and use a diesel truck, light commercial vehicle. Yet I do not think that 'we' are the greatest cost on the roads

I think the clue is in the name. You are being taxed for vehicle emissions and the damege that causes. Roads are paid from general taxation. My kid buying an X-Box game is paying for the roads through general taxation raised through VAT for example. There are figures for costs to health damage and it would be interesting to look at that. From memory the greatest cost from road use is generally attributed to congestion, the amount of time people sit waiting in traffic, and even longer with the delays trying to pass cyclists riding two abreast.

 

[frank rabbets]

Can't remember which city in Europe it was but there were horses pulling tourist trailers round. Each horse had a canvas shute under it's rear where horse droppings could collect and be emptied later. I think horses in this country ought to wear them.

 

[BobMurphy]

Can't remember which city in Europe it was but there were horses pulling tourist trailers round. Each horse had a canvas shute under it's rear where horse droppings could collect and be emptied later. I think horses in this country ought to wear them.

Not Europe - I saw that in Marrakesh .

(Its probably also seen in somewhere like Zurich ).

Bob.

 

[karl2000]

I think the simple anser is they can. But what is the point, what are we trying to achieve?

Just to create a more level playing field really. Cyclists don't even need to pass a test. Cyclists aren't accountable. Because they're not accountable, they are less responsible.

They ride through red lights, they weave in and out of cars, come up the inside where there is absolutely no room, they ride on pavements, they ram into pedestrians etc etc

I think the situation is worse in cities.

Fewer deaths and injuries from bad riding?

Not necessarily - but better behaviour.

As an aside evryone I ride with (two abreast) has specific 3rd party cycle insurance.

Thats nice, but nobody can claim if the bikes/riders are not identifiable.

If a cyclist causes an accident with bad riding, they can just ride away and leave the motorist(s) to pick up the pieces.

Rob, this is not aimed at you - I have no doubt that you are a responsible road user weather you're on your bike in your LC or whatever - the fact you have clearly given these issues more thought than most speaks volumes and I appreciate your view.

 

[Shayne]

Might have saved Michael Caine some headaches but i cant see the movie being a success

Why do we never see kids on bikes any more . For me my bike was my freedom , first tme i ever let loose with profanities i didnt actually use in the normal course of things towards a copper i was about 9 and he forced me to take my bike home because it had no lights on it . It wasn't even dark he just fancied my mother

My bike was grounded and with absolutely no chance of anyone buying me lights i just got up before anyone else in the morning and vanished with my bike for a week

 

[Grimbo]

Cyclists......
I ride a push bike both of the road variety and the MTB variety..... the bikes are not the issue ...it's the idiots riding them especially on rural roads....

They pass horses on single track roads at speed without any warning ....

They will hold up 24 tons of tractor and trailer that can do 50kph for miles and then when he does pass them will ride past him at the next junction and make him do it all again....same for HGV's and other vehicles...it's as though they go out their way to annoy vehicle users....

We get the weekend tour wannabes who use our single track roads as a race track.... come round a corner and meet a large vehicle coming the other way and can't stop because the road is muddy so fall off and try and blame the vehicle driver cause he's insured .

We had one female cyclist ride into the back of a low loader parked on a straight piece of road with hazzards on .... she was head down arrse in gear for at least 1/4 of a mile and even admitted having seen it at the start of the straight but thought it was driving along...

The lycra louts are the issue not the average recreational cyclist or commuter , and also the ones who seem to think any form of light is not needed even on a dark winters day or will go out for a ride on a foggy morning when any sane person would think it might be safer to wait until the fog clears

 

[Rob Cowell]

Just to create a more level playing field really.

I would love the playing field to be more level. Fewer than 1% of pedestrians are killed by cyclists. All the others, more than 400 a year are killed by motor vehicles, and cars account for more than half of those motor vehicles. Want to know what kills pedestrians on pavements? It's not bicycles, it's not e-Scooters. It is registration plate clad vehicles though. Of the 100 or so cyclists killed every year 80% are hit by a motor vehicle. Of the 500 or so car occupants killed every year precisely none are killed by cyclists. The playing field is so skewed so steeply it's hard to imagine how much legislation is needed to make it even gently slopey.

Cyclists aren't accountable. Because they're not accountable, they are less responsible.

I can only assume you have never fallen off a bike. It hurts. When you get hit by a car and then fall off it generally hurts a lot. Drive your car into a cyclists and you won't feel a thing. Plenty of trucks haven't even noticed they were doing it. I just don't buy the accountability-responsibility thing. Cyclists are very reponsible because they really, really, really don't want to get hit. They might ride through a red light, and we can argue they shouldn't, but it usually is a benign action. And I have seen cyclists ride through lights and almost collide with pedestrians and they are idiots of the lowest order. Although when you ride into a pedestrian it also hurts, so you generally want to avoid that too. Again, not a concern for car drivers.

I don't drive through red lights becuase I know doing so is really dangerous and there is a good change I will get hit, or hit someone. This has nothing to do with me having a number plate. Idiots will always idiot unfortunately.

I also just think it would be very difficult to police. I stick ABC123 on my Colnago C64, and an ANPR camera pops up it's a Trek Domane. Would anyone know? Of course I wouldn't do this, but the idiots likely would. If they flee the scene of some indiscretion how is it going to help?

Thats nice, but nobody can claim if the bikes/riders are not identifiable.

No one can claim unless they can show the thing happened. Got my door mirror taken off by a skip lorry a couple of years ago. Got the number plate. Got the skip company name. Not me says the driver. Not interested say the police. There we go. Number plate. Insurance. Useless. Would love to see a figure for how much monetary damage cyclists cause to motorists every year. And then put the value of damage caused by uninsured motorists next to it.

Rob, this is not aimed at you

It is. If number plates for bicycles were mande mandatory, and fortunately I think there is almost zero chance of this in the foreseeable future, it is aimed at every bicycle owner who will now incur the expense of licensing. I only argue that to impose this on the millions of bicycles in the UK we should take a logical look at what we are trying to fix and think about whether this would do it, and if it did what is the cost to the population? I rode 9000 miles last year (and drove 4000), not a big cost per mile for me. Pain in the backside when you and the missus go for a ride twice a year in the summer.

I hope none of this comes across as at all acrimonious on the forum, because I think it's a reasonable question to ask. I just also think there are good reasons it doesn't get us anywhere much for a very significant administrative effort. For cyclists it's a position that gets trotted out regularly. In fact one nice lady took time out from her busy drive only last weekend to slow down to 20mph while sat on the opposite side of the empty road to chastise my friend and I for riding 2 abreast and telling us we don't even pay road tax. I assume she meant VED but my response to her was less pedantic.

 

[Tractionman]

Yawn.