vibrating engine still an issue

landcruiserjohnb

Active Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
55
Hi Guys
Im back looking to get that little bit of info that will crack this annoying vibration problem with my engine.
So far I have have had the mechanic change the IP for a new second hand one at a cost of hundreds of Euro thinking this was the problem.
This week I had the mechanic spend a lot of time checking or discounting what he thought could be the problem based on his knowledge and the advice of the guys here.
Well he checked all the tappets for a sticking one,
he checked the injectors ,the ones he could get out and they were fine,
he took off the large pipe running over the engine to check for blow back or some thing like that,
he ran the engine on a can of diesel to discount a faulty fuel pipe, fuel filter housing issues.
But none of his work yielded any info to help.
He now does not know what to do and has suggested leaving it alone and living with the vibrations.
But thats hard to do when I know the answer is out there.
The issues again just to refresh your heads are.
The engine will start fine first time every time in cold or heat.
But when it does, the engine will vibrate violently revs drop on the counter and this will happen all the time.
It may settle after a while but When put in gear (its an auto) the load will not be compansated for and the revs will drop again and the engine will vibrate, like its looking for fuel.
It sound very splurty for what of a better work and the exhaust gases will mimmick the vibration.
Its a bitch to park or have in slow moving traffic vibration all the time.
There are no issues with it once I put my foot even slightly on the pedal or when driving at any speeds, which is when it needs more fuel.
With the old IP on it used to cut out dead after driving for a while at speed and then slowing down, but with the replacement IP this issue has gone.
Still at a loss, so please ask away if this was in any way unclear.
cheers
john
 

TobyJug

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
379
Garage
pickup pipe and filter in your tank..

you can get to it through the floor in the back..

It will be clogged and needs cleaning, hence the struggle to pump diesel up..

My mate had that problem and the cleaning has cured it...

I have the same problem although not to the same extend as yours yet mine will only occur in hot weather (creating a vacuum) or after a long drive..
I will set to clean it all soon and should be spot on...
 

Julian Voelcker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
313
Is the pump being timed up correctly?

It sounds like the pump timing is out and possibly a problem with the cold start device.

Firstly don't rely on lining up the marks on the engine when putting the pump on - get the right kit for setting up the timing by measuring the plunger stroke.

Secondly, when you setup the timing you need to put a spacer in the cold start device (refer to a manual on this) - the cold start device advances the timing until the engine warms up which is why you put a spacer in it to simulate the engine being hot when you set the timing. Now if the cold start device is knackered it will leave the engine permanently advanced and give the issues you describe.
 

landcruiserjohnb

Active Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
55
thanks guys
I will bring this info to my guy and see what he says.
Curious on your point Julian is that he said he advanced the IP a bit on Friday to see if that would help.
He ran the engine from a can of diesel so this would discount the fuel tank filter problem would it not.
cheers
john
 
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landcruiserjohnb

Active Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
55
Hi Guys
Since the mechanic advanced the injector pump last week the engine has been sounding like a Transit van, very crackly and noisy.
So he will retard it later this week.
Could someone explain what this all means please.
I am curious because of the difference in the running of the engine.
He did say he used the item that Julian was talking about to set the timing so its not that that is causing the vibrating.
And its not the fuel, the tappets,the engine mounts, the engine, the injectors so what is left other than the IP which is different than the original one.
cheers
john
 

pugwash

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Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
389
Country Flag
uk
Change all the copper washers and the return and feed pipes (best to get them from ian rubie as they're unlikely to be cheap) as wellas the bank bolts that bolt into the top of the injectors

if this doesn't work then you will need to pull each of the injectors and change the valve seats- which can be a bitch of ajob!
 

Julian Voelcker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
313
John,

The timing is when the injection pump injects the fuel into the cylinder - it needs to go in at a specific time in relation to the piston going up or down to make the truck run smoothly.

To set the timing on your engine you measure the plunger stroke when No. 1 cylinder it at Top Dead Centre using a micrometer and a gadget that screws into the back of the pump.

If the pump has a cold start device fitted you need to setup the cold start device first before sorting the timing. The cold start device advances the timing initially and then as the engine warms up a plunger moves retarding the timing back to what it should be for the correct running of the engine. So when you are setting up the timing you need to force the cold start device back (it is spring loaded) to where it would be when the engine is running warm/hot - usually you would do this by wedging it back with a screwdriver and then placing a block between the plunger and spring mechanism to simulate the engine being hot.

Now, if the timing is set without spacer the pump would be running retarded when warmed up and the other problem is that the cold start devices often fail so they don't move at all - then if you set the timing with the block in place the pump would be permanently running slightly advanced.

Just out of interest, what is the truck ticking over at? Also when he changed the pump did he also change the cold start device?
 

landcruiserjohnb

Active Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
55
Hi Julian
As usual you have explained in lay man terms ,thanks.
One of the problems I had with the original IP was the cold start item.
The IP had to be overhauled when a bit of the cold start broke off into the IP and caused the cruiser to suddenly break down on the road.
I dont even know if the cold start is on the new IP or even what it looks like, is it attached or inside the IP.
I will ask the guy about the procedure you have said.
Its not really possible that the two pumps would have the same problem IS IT.
But yet a few different guys have worked on this issue over the time it has been acting up I would have thought someone would have got it right if its an adjustment issue.
cheers
john
 

Dave 2000

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Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
2,743
Country Flag
spain
"There are no issues with it once I put my foot even slightly on the pedal or when driving at any speeds, which is when it needs more fuel"

This engine can tickover at a little over 300 rpm but will be rough with it. In neutral this engine will idle smoothly at 600 rpm, as you have an auto I would suggest around 800/850. You mention that you only need to touch the throttle to make the engine smooth, why is the mechanic not lifting the idle a little to see if it is driveable?

Has the mechanic/s done the following:

Checked the valve clearances?
Done a compression test? (a sticking/leaking valve can cause a poor idle)
Cracked the injectors one at a time, similar to pulling a plug lead looking for a weak cylinder and perhaps exposing an injector with a poor spray pattern?
Checked for soft engine mounts?
Checked for missing engine mount bolt/s (seen that before)
Checked the rev counter is accurate?

Your mechanic needs to eliminate all the easy stuff first my friend.

You mentioned the cold start device breaking and stopping the engine, my point being that metal fragments are often left in the pump and could perhaps migrate to the injectors? This is a problem on higher mileage motors, I would take the ACSD off and use a blanking plate to seal the pump, it's removal also can cure the 'tick' that many 80's suffer from particularly when cold, this device often leaves the timing 'off' when it gets stuck leaving the engine over advanced when hot (bad) or (not so bad) retarded when cold, the device is low down on the outside of the pump slightly towards the front.

regards

Dave
 

landcruiserjohnb

Active Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
55
Hi Dave
Thanks for the reply.
Its interesting stuff you have said.
I have asked my mechanic to discount the easy things first and AFAIK he has done this.
Im sure he didn't do other things that you refer to, but every time I go back to him it costs 50euro and up for each visit.
The main dealer is no good and very expensive.
Whats wrong really is the simple fact that these 80s are quite rare here and the mechanics would rather do a service to a car than look for problems with my cruiser.
They don't have the knowledge nor interest really.
But I am keeping a record of all the suggestions from the experts here.
The rev count as seen on the dash jumps and this can be seen while driving but yet no difference in driving to correspond with this.
When the engine is at normal driving temp and at idle it will go from about 400rpm to 800rpm.
I have tried to raise the idle revs but then when it seems stable say at 800 it will jump higher and then has to be lowered because its too high for the autobox in traffic.
I just had the engine oil analyised and its fine.
cheers
john
 

Dave 2000

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Mar 26, 2010
Messages
2,743
Country Flag
spain
At the moment in Spain we are struggling with 45 degrees!! :violin:

regards

Dave
 
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