vibrating - shaking when idling cold engine

[spyrosfly]

Dear all,


I have the below issue and nobody in Greece (Toyota or non Toyota Dealer) can tackle it since diesel engines are not used so much and for that reason, there is no really experienced technicians to identify the problem.


When I bought the car (LC120 with diesel 3 litters engine 1KD with approximately 158 hp) I knew that there was a problem with the injectors and I changed them immediately with the original ones from Denso. (It had 118.000 km)


The problematic injectors were causing the engine to shake – vibrate while idling only when it was cold. The shaking was strong enough to shake the whole car body… don’t imagine a strong shake!! It was just a very light one that you could identify only if you are familiar with technical staff.


After I changed the injectors, it disappeared.

Just after 15000km this shake while idling and with cold motor started to return... At eh beginning it was very light but during the next 10000km it becomes almost the same with the old injectors.


I have gone through several tests in several Toyota dealers and nobody can find anything. The injectors are performing well according to the PC (when you plug it). I have also visited to some BOSCH dealers who are specialized on diesel injectors and pumps. They also cannot find anything (by checking the engine or even plugging the PC on.


Some of them told me that one of the engine mounts might be faulty and it could cause this vibration which is heavily reduced when the engine is warmed up. I could agree but the fact that the engine has a strange noise that is not appearing all the time (something like a valve is not functioning well) along with a rattling that is more frequent than the past is making me think that it is not the engine mount.
To say again, it appears only while idling. This means that it is not a problem in transmission or any other part of the vehicle since the car is not moving when it is shaking. When the engine has higher rounds per minute, there is no shaking…

Has anyone faced the same issue? Does anyone have any thoughts?


Thanks in advance for any useful comment.

 

[Crispin]

Could it be something resonant which is causing the problem? i.e. a gearbox mount or engine mount? IIRC the engine mounts where pneumatic on 120s? Was it @Gary Stockton here who had his fail due to a leak?
https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/search/170968/?q=engine+mounts&o=relevance&c[user][0]=5754

Does it change if there is load on it at idle? i.e. you're "driving" in idle when cold.
Could it be a leaky seat around the injector? The copper washers had a problem with cracking.

Hopefully someone cleverer than I will be along with something useful

 

[Rob Cowell]

I had the same issue where the shaking at idle was when I was in D(rive). If I shifted to N(eutral) it went away. I was convinced it was the engine mounts, but my injectors had nasty readings so I changed those as a more urgent job and the vibration went away. Clearly that doesn't look like your problem.

Unfortunately from what I read on Prado Point the engine mounts are a pig to change. Be worth have a search back through threads on there though to compare symptoms.

Just to rule it out, your rattling isn't at 1500 rpm is it? In which case search for something like 1500rpm and rattle for the easy fix to that one.

 

[spyrosfly]

Could it be something resonant which is causing the problem? i.e. a gearbox mount or engine mount? IIRC the engine mounts where pneumatic on 120s? Was it @Gary Stockton here who had his fail due to a leak?
https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/search/170968/?q=engine+mounts&o=relevance&c[user][0]=5754

Does it change if there is load on it at idle? i.e. you're "driving" in idle when cold.
Could it be a leaky seat around the injector? The copper washers had a problem with cracking.

Hopefully someone cleverer than I will be along with something useful

It could be the engine or gearbox mount.
As said before this is the most probable cause.
What worries me is the strange sound of the engine (not occurring all times) on load or while using it for braking (I have manual transmission)

As said above the engine's noise is like one cylinder is starving or there is a problem with one valve.
I say again. Such symptoms are very light and difficult to identify even from the technicians that are not familiar with this car.
My blessing (or curse...) is that I am an electrical engineer quite active on mechanical stuff and I can identify issues from a quite early stage...

 

[t1pper]

I think you have answered your own question last time you replaced the injectors the symptoms disappeared.
maybe it is related to fuel used or some other factor, try some fuel additive and cleaner to see if there is any notable difference also what about a fuel filter swap or any other fuel line filters not sure if there is an in tank filter on your car, lastly fully clean the tank in case there is something in the bottom lurking.
Hope this helps

 

[spyrosfly]

I had the same issue where the shaking at idle was when I was in D(rive). If I shifted to N(eutral) it went away. I was convinced it was the engine mounts, but my injectors had nasty readings so I changed those as a more urgent job and the vibration went away. Clearly that doesn't look like your problem.

Unfortunately from what I read on Prado Point the engine mounts are a pig to change. Be worth have a search back through threads on there though to compare symptoms.

Just to rule it out, your rattling isn't at 1500 rpm is it? In which case search for something like 1500rpm and rattle for the easy fix to that one.

The rattling is present when I press the engine regardless of the rpm.

I am suspecting that some of the problems that might occur on injectors cannot be detected by the simple pc connection.
The problem is that any dismounting of the injectors in order to be checked on the testing machine and reinstated on the car costs 400 and it needs 1 full day...

 

[Deleted member 13129]

Dear all,


I have the below issue and nobody in Greece (Toyota or non Toyota Dealer) can tackle it since diesel engines are not used so much and for that reason, there is no really experienced technicians to identify the problem.


When I bought the car (LC120 with diesel 3 litters engine 1KD with approximately 158 hp) I knew that there was a problem with the injectors and I changed them immediately with the original ones from Denso. (It had 118.000 km)


The problematic injectors were causing the engine to shake – vibrate while idling only when it was cold. The shaking was strong enough to shake the whole car body… don’t imagine a strong shake!! It was just a very light one that you could identify only if you are familiar with technical staff.


After I changed the injectors, it disappeared.

Just after 15000km this shake while idling and with cold motor started to return... At eh beginning it was very light but during the next 10000km it becomes almost the same with the old injectors.


I have gone through several tests in several Toyota dealers and nobody can find anything. The injectors are performing well according to the PC (when you plug it). I have also visited to some BOSCH dealers who are specialized on diesel injectors and pumps. They also cannot find anything (by checking the engine or even plugging the PC on.


Some of them told me that one of the engine mounts might be faulty and it could cause this vibration which is heavily reduced when the engine is warmed up. I could agree but the fact that the engine has a strange noise that is not appearing all the time (something like a valve is not functioning well) along with a rattling that is more frequent than the past is making me think that it is not the engine mount.
To say again, it appears only while idling. This means that it is not a problem in transmission or any other part of the vehicle since the car is not moving when it is shaking. When the engine has higher rounds per minute, there is no shaking…

Has anyone faced the same issue? Does anyone have any thoughts?


Thanks in advance for any useful comment.

Dear all,


I have the below issue and nobody in Greece (Toyota or non Toyota Dealer) can tackle it since diesel engines are not used so much and for that reason, there is no really experienced technicians to identify the problem.


When I bought the car (LC120 with diesel 3 litters engine 1KD with approximately 158 hp) I knew that there was a problem with the injectors and I changed them immediately with the original ones from Denso. (It had 118.000 km)


The problematic injectors were causing the engine to shake – vibrate while idling only when it was cold. The shaking was strong enough to shake the whole car body… don’t imagine a strong shake!! It was just a very light one that you could identify only if you are familiar with technical staff.


After I changed the injectors, it disappeared.

Just after 15000km this shake while idling and with cold motor started to return... At eh beginning it was very light but during the next 10000km it becomes almost the same with the old injectors.


I have gone through several tests in several Toyota dealers and nobody can find anything. The injectors are performing well according to the PC (when you plug it). I have also visited to some BOSCH dealers who are specialized on diesel injectors and pumps. They also cannot find anything (by checking the engine or even plugging the PC on.


Some of them told me that one of the engine mounts might be faulty and it could cause this vibration which is heavily reduced when the engine is warmed up. I could agree but the fact that the engine has a strange noise that is not appearing all the time (something like a valve is not functioning well) along with a rattling that is more frequent than the past is making me think that it is not the engine mount.
To say again, it appears only while idling. This means that it is not a problem in transmission or any other part of the vehicle since the car is not moving when it is shaking. When the engine has higher rounds per minute, there is no shaking…

Has anyone faced the same issue? Does anyone have any thoughts?


Thanks in advance for any useful comment.

Dear all,


I have the below issue and nobody in Greece (Toyota or non Toyota Dealer) can tackle it since diesel engines are not used so much and for that reason, there is no really experienced technicians to identify the problem.


When I bought the car (LC120 with diesel 3 litters engine 1KD with approximately 158 hp) I knew that there was a problem with the injectors and I changed them immediately with the original ones from Denso. (It had 118.000 km)


The problematic injectors were causing the engine to shake – vibrate while idling only when it was cold. The shaking was strong enough to shake the whole car body… don’t imagine a strong shake!! It was just a very light one that you could identify only if you are familiar with technical staff.


After I changed the injectors, it disappeared.

Just after 15000km this shake while idling and with cold motor started to return... At eh beginning it was very light but during the next 10000km it becomes almost the same with the old injectors.


I have gone through several tests in several Toyota dealers and nobody can find anything. The injectors are performing well according to the PC (when you plug it). I have also visited to some BOSCH dealers who are specialized on diesel injectors and pumps. They also cannot find anything (by checking the engine or even plugging the PC on.


Some of them told me that one of the engine mounts might be faulty and it could cause this vibration which is heavily reduced when the engine is warmed up. I could agree but the fact that the engine has a strange noise that is not appearing all the time (something like a valve is not functioning well) along with a rattling that is more frequent than the past is making me think that it is not the engine mount.
To say again, it appears only while idling. This means that it is not a problem in transmission or any other part of the vehicle since the car is not moving when it is shaking. When the engine has higher rounds per minute, there is no shaking…

Has anyone faced the same issue? Does anyone have any thoughts?


Thanks in advance for any useful comment.

Hi
I have 2009 120 1KD automatic 72k miles, my car does the same thing at tickover when engine is cold for about 10 miles
if I put the lever in P or N it stops shaking, So I always put gear in N when I stop at red lights or give ways if I
am stopping for more than 2 seconds. I had a Lexus LS430 V8 petrol before the 120 that always did the same for the the first 10 miles a mate of mine has had a 120 auto since new and that has always done the same.
I think when cold fuel mix is richer making the car to want to go forward and by putting brakes on car shakes
or maybe when engine is cold in gear car needs more revs as transmission is putting strain on cold engine I
think its more likely the car wants to move forward. In hot weather the car warms up much faster so it stops shaking after 3 miles. I think if injectors are worn and letting more fuel feed though it would make engine shake when car is held on the brakes rich mix will make the car want to pull away. I think with all the cold weather you are having in Greece you are noticing the car shaking more for longer until car warms up. I do not think your car has a problem it just needs getting used to it
Kind regards
Antonis

 

[Rob Cowell]

The rattling is present when I press the engine regardless of the rpm.

I am suspecting that some of the problems that might occur on injectors cannot be detected by the simple pc connection.
The problem is that any dismounting of the injectors in order to be checked on the testing machine and reinstated on the car costs 400 and it needs 1 full day...

If you're confident mechanically there is nothing difficult about removing the injectors yourself. You just need to be methodical. There are a few crush washers you need to replace when reassembling, about 30 euros worth if bought from Amayama / Partsouq rather than Toyota.

 

[spyrosfly]

If you're confident mechanically there is nothing difficult about removing the injectors yourself. You just need to be methodical. There are a few crush washers you need to replace when reassembling, about 30 euros worth if bought from Amayama / Partsouq rather than Toyota.

Yes I could remove them but I cannot test them.
so it is useless to do it unless I have a set of new injectors to test them... And lets say that I have one set (quite expensive to consider that I will buy them) I need to have the software to "introduce" them to the CPU of the car. If I dont, the car will work on "safe mode" so I cannot have a real view of the situation...

 

[spyrosfly]

Hi
I have 2009 120 1KD automatic 72k miles, my car does the same thing at tickover when engine is cold for about 10 miles
if I put the lever in P or N it stops shaking, So I always put gear in N when I stop at red lights or give ways if I
am stopping for more than 2 seconds. I had a Lexus LS430 V8 petrol before the 120 that always did the same for the the first 10 miles a mate of mine has had a 120 auto since new and that has always done the same.
I think when cold fuel mix is richer making the car to want to go forward and by putting brakes on car shakes
or maybe when engine is cold in gear car needs more revs as transmission is putting strain on cold engine I
think its more likely the car wants to move forward. In hot weather the car warms up much faster so it stops shaking after 3 miles. I think if injectors are worn and letting more fuel feed though it would make engine shake when car is held on the brakes rich mix will make the car want to pull away. I think with all the cold weather you are having in Greece you are noticing the car shaking more for longer until car warms up. I do not think your car has a problem it just needs getting used to it
Kind regards
Antonis

What you are describing is different than what I do. Yours issue is stopping on neutral and mine is appearing on neutral.
Apart from the fact that your is auto transmition and mine is manual.

 

[Crispin]

I need to have the software to "introduce" them to the CPU of the car.

Can the techstream software do that? You can get it on fleabay, including "plug" for £20.
https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/search/171636/?q=techstream&o=relevance

 

[Rob Cowell]

Yes I could remove them but I cannot test them.
so it is useless to do it unless I have a set of new injectors to test them... And lets say that I have one set (quite expensive to consider that I will buy them) I need to have the software to "introduce" them to the CPU of the car. If I dont, the car will work on "safe mode" so I cannot have a real view of the situation...

Yes. You'd need to take the injectors to a Denso centre for them to test them. The software is cheap, search on here for Techstream to see discussions about it. You get a cable and a CD from ebay for £20.

I replaced my injectors. My write up is a bit patchy, but here https://landcruiserclub.net/community/threads/injector-swap.145851/

 

[Michael Montgomery]

I had a issue with one of the injectors before & that seized one of the pistons where the engine vibrated violently making a uncomfortable noise. Needed a rebuild their after hopefully yours is not that.

 

[Bhutan]

I have the same engine but with an auto gearbox. When I bought the vehicle it had big time vibrations issues starting from cold, also when at a standstill with my foot on the brake and in drive when warm, and sitting at idle with neutral selected when warm. At the time, the vehicle had 92,500 miles on the clock, had the injector seals replaced at 45,000, but was/is still running with the original injectors.

I changed the fuel filter and ran three bottles of injector cleaner through three full tanks of diesel back to back. Now at 95,500 miles, the vibrations have reduced dramatically to the point where I believe (from reading forums for hours upon hours on here and PradoPoint) the truck is now as smooth as a common rail diesel 3.0 1KD is ever going to get with that mileage on the injectors.

Worth a shot for you, you never know your luck.

Tashi Delek!

 

[spyrosfly]

I have the same engine but with an auto gearbox. When I bought the vehicle it had big time vibrations issues starting from cold, also when at a standstill with my foot on the brake and in drive when warm, and sitting at idle with neutral selected when warm. At the time, the vehicle had 92,500 miles on the clock, had the injector seals replaced at 45,000, but was/is still running with the original injectors.

I changed the fuel filter and ran three bottles of injector cleaner through three full tanks of diesel back to back. Now at 95,500 miles, the vibrations have reduced dramatically to the point where I believe (from reading forums for hours upon hours on here and PradoPoint) the truck is now as smooth as a common rail diesel 3.0 1KD is ever going to get with that mileage on the injectors.

Worth a shot for you, you never know your luck.

Tashi Delek!

Thanks for the post!
What you are describing is most probably ditry injectors.
This is not my case since I have already chnaged them just 30000 km ago.
Anyway I also used one botlle of injector cleaner just to convince myself that i tried this too without any change...

 

[Cruiserland]

This is not my case since ........

Hello spiros....
I am a land cruiser 120series owner....
If you like inbox me your e-mail... I have a technician who has been awared by TOYOTA.
He was working in one of the biggest Greek dealers, near Ag.Paraskeyi, for over 15 years, until he started his own workshop.

 

[spyrosfly]

Hi to everyone,

Unfortunately I changed the engine mounts but the vibration is still there…

I am thinking of checking the valve spacing. Does anybody have the technical manual to see what I have to do exactly? I have seen that for the petrol engine, the adjustment is made by checking the valve adjusting shim size and if it is out of specs, you just change it. I don’t know if it is similar in diesel engines (I have the 3litres 1KD)


Does anybody have the related document?

 

[Shayne]

It is perhaps nothing whatsoever to do with your problem spyrosfly and i don't know much about the 120 series but something written here brought to mind a known issue with the 120 series of the air box vibrating .

I can't tell you much more as i have no intention of ever owning a 120 so whatever i read was promptly forgotten but it was something to do with a seal inside the wing where air is sucked in . There's a fix thread on here somewhere .

Which may or may not help if you can find it .

 

[Deleted member 13129]

Hi to everyone,

Unfortunately I changed the engine mounts but the vibration is still there…

I am thinking of checking the valve spacing. Does anybody have the technical manual to see what I have to do exactly? I have seen that for the petrol engine, the adjustment is made by checking the valve adjusting shim size and if it is out of specs, you just change it. I don’t know if it is similar in diesel engines (I have the 3litres 1KD)


Does anybody have the related document?

The valve spacing adjustment is the same as the petrol engine ie changing the shim thickness which is recommended to check around every 65k km , I dont have the specs available on me as my workshop manual is at my work but I can get the specs for you tomorrow if you want them. Have you tried cleaning the maf sensor with maf sensor cleaning spray and cleaned the map filter with carb cleaner, map filter is the small barrel filter that is at the side of the throttle body opposite side to the intercooler it is the filter that stops dirt and oily gunge from getting on the air pressure sensor two easy things to try before checking valve adjustment . Let me know if you want the valve adjustment specs.
Good luck
Kind Regards
Antonis

 

[Rodger]

Like Shayne I don't have a 120 but read the fix for the in pipe to the airbox that vibrates on tick over when cold. Worth a search - it is a recent post. The sponge shrinks and the pipe vibrates against the inner wing. The thread shows a fix for it.
Regards