warm up/idling times

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Jake
On cold mornings I run mine for about 5 minutes, on normal mornings a
couple, no more. Similarly for a turbo engine after speed I let it idle
for about 3 minutes, the faster I drive the longer I allow afterwards
for it to run down - sometimes up to 5 or 6 minutes if I've been driving
say for, about 12 hours or more at speed, on european roads, than I than
it gets the full 6 minutes, which seems to work well for my engine.
I'm still a newby and am still learning about my engine and other
things, but I've now decided through choice to keep it for a bit longer,
even though its costing me a fortune at the moment
Renate
 
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Renate Haupt wrote:
I live on a hill (Wycombe too Jake) and I start winding it down as soon
as I can but I only ever leave it 1-2 minutes at the most. If I have
wound down driving gently somewhere then only 20-30 secs. Maybe this is
too short but I don't think I have the patience for more!
I can't see how the length of the drive matters surely all this is about
is letting the turbo cool so it doesn't crack the oil when the flow
stops. Therefore it doesn't matter if you have driven 30 mins or 30
hours it's what you were doing just before switching off. If you were on
full boost with a hot engine you need to wait longer.
Ian.
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It's got to be about oil and turbo temperature. I look at the oil pressure gauge at idle, which is a pretty good guide to oil temp:
- Significantly above zero: turn straight off
- Just above zero: give it a few seconds
- Pretty much on zero: a minute or so. Only ever get this if I've been towing hard, or I've come straight off the m-way.
I think (hope!) my gauge under-reads, but it's the relative rather than the absolute value that matters.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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Ian
Mutual reassurance time then - because that's exactly what I see.
I note from the handbook that 20w-50 oil might be better for our climate, so next change I'm going to see if I can get some rather than the 10w-40 I'm using at present. Any ideas anyone?
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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Hi guys
I have another opinon on this. I bought mine nearly four years ago. My
understanding is that I need to drive it gentle when it is cold and to let
the engine run after a drive for a few seconds no more. This was all it
needed , something to do with the turbo still spinning when you stop and if
you switch the engine off the oil pump stops and no oil goes to your turbo
causing wear while it is still spinning. That is why people think that
synthetic oil is good for the engine which has a turbo because this oil
takes a higher temp to break down. The turbo increases the oil temp a good
bit. Im sure if I am wrong some one will tell me so dont take my wird for it
just yet.
John c
92 HDJ 80
Ireland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Packer" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] warm up/idling times
 
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Christopher Bell wrote:
Talking of which I have a Jap import so can't read mine!
Does anyone else have the altimeter and compass in a roof console?
If they do how do you setup the compass? Mine has two adjusters one
labelled N and one labelled E I think. So far my fiddling hasn't
resulted in it working corectly. Not important but irritating that I
can't work it out but maybe it's broken. So how is supposed to work?
Thanks,
Ian.
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Been watching the warm-up and warm-down posts....
Does this depend on oil? What engine oil are you all using? Sometimes a slightly
thicker oil is used by some in very hot locations, ie Sahara etc but not such a
good idea to be starting in winter with a heavier oil to shift.
Does oil make a difference to the warm up and warm down? Be interested to know
if we are all using the same oil.
Thinking out loud really...
Jeremy
thoroughly-enjoying-my-'93-TLC-planning-the-mods-to-start-in-jan-
 
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I too have the compass and altimeter on my roof console and I too cannot figure
it out. I'm thinking of removing it and replacing it with an electronic compass
but am organising suspension and gearbox oil cooler stuff at the moment...
Jeremy
Quoting Ian Packer <[Email address removed]>:
 
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[Email address removed] wrote:
I use the cheapie Castrol oil GTD 15W/40 because I can get it from B&Q
for about ?12 per 5l and as I have to change it every 3000 miles it
could get expensive. Last time I used Magnatec by accident as they had
run out of the standard.
There's all this stuff about oil additives and the big ends and
somewhere I got it in my head that the old standard GTD had the right
constituents as well as being cheap. Also as my 80 is 1991 they are
probably of similar vintage. I had an old Porsche and was advised to run
that on Magnatec by a specialist not the latest synthetics as the
tolerances were not setup for the latest oils. Myth?
Ian.
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john
It's not that the turbo keeps spinning, it's that immediately after hard work it is seriously hot (near enough engine exhaust gas temperature) and if you turn off the flow of cooling oil immediately by stopping the engine some nasty things can happen:
#1 it can break down and carbonise the oil locally, causing premature turbo bearing failure due to gunk buildup
#2 the turbo housing can contract faster than the blades causing contact - you'd have to try very hard indeed to achieve this in normal use, although I should think it is possible if you engage in deep wading immediately following heavy work. I have noticed on some of the Ozzie lists that people stop the engine for a bit to let it cool down before crossing rivers.
So when people talk about "simmering" a turbo they mean letting it cool down a bit by continuing to have a flow of cooling oil for a few seconds or minutes, bringing it to a safer temperature - presumeably pretty much that of the engine oil itself.
See an "Honest John" thread on the subject http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/?f=1&t=3504
Christopher Bell
(No altimeter or compass - or satnav for that matter)
 
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I have always been intrigued about the manual stating that you shouldn't idle for too long at startup.
Can anyone see any logic behind this?
Cheers,
Julian
Home: 01285 821 712
Office: 01285 821 910
Mobile: 07971 540 362
 
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Julian et al , go onto Google - enter -"engine wear when idling" and
have a read of some of the articles.
Renate - I will be in touch as soon as Have finished something in
work.
Gareth Jones.
I have always been intrigued about the manual stating that you
shouldn't idle for too long at startup.
 
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Hi julian
The garage that rebuilt my engine told me not to let the engine tick over
for too long if at all possible. To turn it off and not let it run at idle.
The reason for this was he said that unlike most engines harmful deposits
build up and you are not getting the same cooling effect for the engine as
you would if it was driving. He asked me several times about the heat and
the temp of the engine and did it ever get very hot. I told him not while I
had it . He explained that heat is one the worst things for the engine and
leads to all sorts of problems. He told me that the temp guage on the dash
should not be relied upon as it only indicates certain temp and your engine
could still be running hot with out it showing up on the guage. He lost me
after that because I always thought that this guage was the best indication
of a rise in engine temp. It was for this reason of heat that he insisted
that I put a new toyota rad in if he was to do the job on my engine.
So basically it seems it is bad to let your engine idle when you do not need
to.
John c
92 HDJ 80 1HD- T Ireland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Voelcker" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] warm up/idling times
I have always been intrigued about the manual stating that you shouldn't
idle for too long at startup.
Can anyone see any logic behind this?
Cheers,
Julian
Home: 01285 821 712
Office: 01285 821 910
Mobile: 07971 540 362
 
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Ian
Usually when the revs run down a bit then I feel the time is right to
drive away. I don't know whether the same applies to manuals, but the
revs on mine usually drop to around 500 from 1000; this is the time when
the engine sounds regular and smooth and the fuel/air ratio (and
pressure) appears optimum for its running.
Being logical (and some would say systematic) in my thinking, an engine
the size of the ones that we each run, will, by definition, run hot. I
don't think we can avoid or slow the heat build-up process
substantially.
IMHO engine idle to warm up must be personal preference - it seems
there are many contrasting ideas, not least what works best for each
particular engine, and each opinion is not that exluded from each
other.
Hope this helps John, I know you're concerned about this.
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 12/17/04 09:07am >>>
Hi julian
The garage that rebuilt my engine told me not to let the engine tick
over
for too long if at all possible. To turn it off and not let it run at
idle.
The reason for this was he said that unlike most engines harmful
deposits
build up and you are not getting the same cooling effect for the
engine as
you would if it was driving. He asked me several times about the heat
and
the temp of the engine and did it ever get very hot. I told him not
while I
had it . He explained that heat is one the worst things for the engine
and
leads to all sorts of problems. He told me that the temp guage on the
dash
should not be relied upon as it only indicates certain temp and your
engine
could still be running hot with out it showing up on the guage. He lost
me
after that because I always thought that this guage was the best
indication
of a rise in engine temp. It was for this reason of heat that he
insisted
that I put a new toyota rad in if he was to do the job on my engine.
So basically it seems it is bad to let your engine idle when you do not
need
to.
John c
92 HDJ 80 1HD- T Ireland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Voelcker" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] warm up/idling times
I have always been intrigued about the manual stating that you
shouldn't
idle for too long at startup.
Can anyone see any logic behind this?
Cheers,
Julian
Home: 01285 821 712
Office: 01285 821 910
Mobile: 07971 540 362
 
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On 17/12/04 8:40, "Julian Voelcker" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
As I see it, and I'm not sure where this came from but possibly a French
engineer in the late 80's when I made a film about the Citroen 2CV, but the
sooner you move off and drive, albeit slowly, the better. He described it in
much more technical but understandable terms but once moving, oils, water,
coolants etc. get all the places they need to much faster and everything
gets up to temp, not just part of the engine.
Still intrigued by what oils everyone out there uses...
Jeremy
--
 
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John
The temperature gauge on these cars apparently has "logic" built in so that it registers mid-scale over a wide range of actual engine temperatures. Presumeably to anaesthetise the non-technical, and to annoy the hell out of the rest of us.
Certainly my temp gauge sits there at 50% once warmed up and never budges, even when I know the engine is operating v. hot towing heavy loads at speed. If your temperature gauge shifts above 50% you almost certainly have a problem.
Whether your mechanic was referring to this or not I don't know, but for these trucks at least he was dead right. If you are worried about it you can fit another temperature gauge but to be honest I wouldn't bother: I work mine pretty hard on occasions and it doesn't seem to turn a hair. On the other hand if you are planning to tackle the Sahara ....
Regarding idling times: if the engine is running OK drive off immediately - the sooner you get it to normal operating temperatures the better, although you shouldn't boot it hard while it's still cold. Only if it's v. v. cold (eg -20c) and the engine is running roughly will you need to idle for a little while to get enough power to drive off.
Diesels soot up when subjected to prolonged idling, and in fact this is one of the serviceability tests that manufacturers carry out, especially on light commercial vans. I once saw this referred to as the "AA Patrolman test", in reference to the fact that their vans may sit idling on the hard shoulder for an hour or more.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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Hi
I do not have a manual but I believe if idling for any length of time then
if one has an auto box it should be put into neutral and not left in park,
as it tends to war out the brake bands and can lead to other auto problems.
I am not sure about what problems there are for the engine the main one I
would have thought will be oil contamination because most engines are not as
fuel efficient at idle and tend to be rich, also perhaps as the engine is
not under load there may be piston slap amongst other things causing
premature wear. A reference earlier to overheating well I do not know about
this it may be engine specific and perhaps Toyota put out a memo if there
had been a lot of problems with a specific engine. Engine temperature is
usually only taken at one or two points with a sender and will only measure
temperature at that point, some senders take water temp not at the hottest
point and so gages can only be used as a guide.
Anthony Graham
1994 1HD - T
West Wales
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
Sent: 17 December 2004 09:49
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] warm up/idling times
On 17/12/04 8:40, "Julian Voelcker" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
idle
As I see it, and I'm not sure where this came from but possibly a French
engineer in the late 80's when I made a film about the Citroen 2CV, but the
sooner you move off and drive, albeit slowly, the better. He described it in
much more technical but understandable terms but once moving, oils, water,
coolants etc. get all the places they need to much faster and everything
gets up to temp, not just part of the engine.
Still intrigued by what oils everyone out there uses...
Jeremy
--
 
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Jeremy
Castrol GTD (non synthetic) 10W-40. I'm too mean to use the synthetic stuff at ?50+ per change!
Changed at between 3k and 5k miles depending on its colour, apparent (visual) health & the behaviour of the oil pressure gauge at idle. In the summer (children + horses = towing) season when I hammer the engine the oil dies sooner.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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