when will it stop (not the cruiser)

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Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Im really anoyed at this point and this is why.
I collected my cruiser today after being grounded for weeks and my first
thought was, I hope this is the end of all this trouble.
After getting a lift from a friend in his car to collect it, it also hit me
how big these cruisers actually are.
I never thought of it before, I suppose being without it for a while made me
think.
It cost 600 euro to get the pump stripped and fixed.
It does feel different, more responsive but still vibrates at times.
The power to the solinoid is not there anymore so the diesel guy rigged up
a direct connection to the battery to get me home.
The down side of this is the engine will run even when the keys are out,
so every time I stop I need to open the bonnet and disconnect this feed.
He does not do wiring so Ill have to get an auto electritian to look at it.
That said I phoned the auto guy and he cant even look at it for three weeks,
great.
Anyway on the way home about 70 in total miles every thing seemed fine
apart from the noise of the rear wheel bearing scretching which needs
attention.
Then I noticed the temp guage in the red after about 8 miles.
I pulled over and checked and found the water bottle was empty.
I filled it and let the engine cool down.
Set off again about three miles and the guage was back into near the red.
Pulled over again and phoned the Diesel guy.
He said I must have a water leak, I could not find one any where.
We waited ( my friend and me) untill the engine cooled and opened the
radiator cap.
There was no liquid in there at all , no water, no coolant.
Filled the rad with water we got from a house near by and reved the engine
for a while looking for leaks.
All we saw was light brown gunge floating to the top of the rad.
We guessed this was stuff which was dislodged when it heated up too much.
There was none, CONCLUSION the Diesel guys (the experts) had forget to fill
the cruiser with coolant, what a load of s---.
Also on the way back I thought I noticed very few lights on the dash when I
started it twice after stopping.
I thought no more of this untill I tried to put my wipers on.
At first they went slow then stopped in mid swip, what a load of s-- I
thought.
I arrived home and decided to go out down town for a message in the cruiser
now I dont have to walk anymore.
Well Now the cruiser would not start only click click click click.
I know what that sound is the batteries are dead.
Now sorry but I need to know a few things before I put a match to it.
It started when i collected it , then twice more on the way back, which
means it had enough in the batteries to start it three times no problem.
If the batteries were low when I collected it should the batteries have
charged on the trip back, I would think so.
The batteries are only new ones from the last time I broke down less than a
year ago .
If this is the case would I be right in thinking I have a problem with the
altenator, which is why the batteries did not charge.
If this is the case do I get it fixed or do i get a new altenator.
The altenator has not been toutched before ( amazing there is still one
piece on the cruiser that has not been replaced YET).
Any advice would as usual be appreciated.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
once again grounded
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi John
it looks like you are at the end of your troubles and after that
you'll drive happily many many miles without problems :))
as for the alternator I thought it wouldn't charge at the beginning
when I start the engine so I went to Toyota and ask them to
check if that might be the brushes but they decided to replace it
with new one(so the 'toy' experts do NOT repair alternators-only
change the good ones with the new ones but that is another topic)
I wish you good luck
cheers
Lubo
On Sep 13, 2006, at 7:05 PM, John Byrne wrote:
> If this is the case do I get it fixed or do i get a new alternator
 
G

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Guest
Jesus John, Sorry 4 u're troubles mate...
I know I've had issues with mine in the past (early LPG days) when I was
pissed at it and those 'folks' fixen in.
Over the years I've learned 2 fix most things on it (have a great mentor -
Robbie) and that has a made a HUGE difference. Much more confident and even
fix the womans crappy Kia these days.
Learn a lot from all the bulletin boards etc. even when its 'over my head'
but over time that stuff sinks in.Takes a long time 2 learn all the car
fixen manual lingo and manuals (gheez but the Toyota OEM manuals -
especially diagrams must be the worst manuals I've ever had 2 comprehend
(maybe u need to be a "trained" mechanic 2 figure it out)).
Good luck with latest saga.
Lal
 
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Guest
John,
I'd b real pissed (and maybe start a "lawyer" talking 2 them) with the pump
fixers. They should b expecting a "bill" from whoever fixes the "issues"
they've caused (electric man etc..)
If u've blown a head gasket (have those on diesels?) thats a very expensive
fix. Hopefully by your careful driving and stopping on the red u've
alleviated that. But letting the radiator go empty makes no sense. If it
happened in their garage they would have noticed a big puddle.
I'd flush/reflush the rad a few times over next few weeks 2 get all that
crud out (may consider putting thru a rad cleaning soln). I'd b pretty
careful on this and key a keen eye on it.
The lights missing on the dash means they have screwed up the electrics
somewhat. Even if they had 2 put a direct feed to the battery (I presume
have a fuse on this link) for the inj pump that "shouldn't" have screwed
things up.
The 'keep running' while keys out is another cock-up on their behalf.
The not starting - ditto.
Get the batteries checked (volt meter and battery fluid level etc..), even
if pretty new, to c whats up with them. If they are dead then it "may" be
the alternator (u can get readings from that (once its running!) 2 c if its
outputing the correct V/amps etc..))
Again sounds like boyo's above left doors or something on (radio) that
drained it dead. He may have had a starting issue (As in no start) and
jumped it himself but not enough running time (to fully recharge the
batteries etc.). So put batteries on a slow (overnight charger) and check
b4/after readings and c if better.
I'd b surprised if the alternator is 'suddenly' gone - 2 concidental
Lal
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:06 AM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] when will it stop (not the cruiser)
Hi Guys
Im really anoyed at this point and this is why.
I collected my cruiser today after being grounded for weeks and my first
thought was, I hope this is the end of all this trouble.
After getting a lift from a friend in his car to collect it, it also hit me
how big these cruisers actually are.
I never thought of it before, I suppose being without it for a while made me
think.
It cost 600 euro to get the pump stripped and fixed.
It does feel different, more responsive but still vibrates at times.
The power to the solinoid is not there anymore so the diesel guy rigged up
a direct connection to the battery to get me home.
The down side of this is the engine will run even when the keys are out,
so every time I stop I need to open the bonnet and disconnect this feed.
He does not do wiring so Ill have to get an auto electritian to look at it.
That said I phoned the auto guy and he cant even look at it for three weeks,
great.
Anyway on the way home about 70 in total miles every thing seemed fine
apart from the noise of the rear wheel bearing scretching which needs
attention.
Then I noticed the temp guage in the red after about 8 miles.
I pulled over and checked and found the water bottle was empty.
I filled it and let the engine cool down.
Set off again about three miles and the guage was back into near the red.
Pulled over again and phoned the Diesel guy.
He said I must have a water leak, I could not find one any where.
We waited ( my friend and me) untill the engine cooled and opened the
radiator cap.
There was no liquid in there at all , no water, no coolant.
Filled the rad with water we got from a house near by and reved the engine
for a while looking for leaks.
All we saw was light brown gunge floating to the top of the rad.
We guessed this was stuff which was dislodged when it heated up too much.
There was none, CONCLUSION the Diesel guys (the experts) had forget to fill
the cruiser with coolant, what a load of s---.
Also on the way back I thought I noticed very few lights on the dash when I
started it twice after stopping.
I thought no more of this untill I tried to put my wipers on.
At first they went slow then stopped in mid swip, what a load of s-- I
thought.
I arrived home and decided to go out down town for a message in the cruiser
now I dont have to walk anymore.
Well Now the cruiser would not start only click click click click.
I know what that sound is the batteries are dead.
Now sorry but I need to know a few things before I put a match to it.
It started when i collected it , then twice more on the way back, which
means it had enough in the batteries to start it three times no problem.
If the batteries were low when I collected it should the batteries have
charged on the trip back, I would think so.
The batteries are only new ones from the last time I broke down less than a
year ago .
If this is the case would I be right in thinking I have a problem with the
altenator, which is why the batteries did not charge.
If this is the case do I get it fixed or do i get a new altenator.
The altenator has not been toutched before ( amazing there is still one
piece on the cruiser that has not been replaced YET).
Any advice would as usual be appreciated.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
once again grounded
 
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G

Guest

Guest
Poor old JB it doesn't get any better for you does it old
friend? You have all our sympathies, strangely you never say what
your long suffering wife says about the Cruiser ;o)
First action I would take would be to make a claim on the 'expert'.
Better if you are a member of a motoring organisation, otherwise go
to a lawyer if the 'expert' tells you to go on your way after your
initial approach. You now have to be very worried about your head
gasket unfortunately.
As for the alternator, again you should find a good independent auto
electrician hopefully (not like the fuel man) who will spin it up to
working revs on a test bench and check it out. If the windings and
diodes are OK then the most it can be will be brushes and a
regulator. I got a complete brush box and regulator fitted for 40
quid on my 80's alternator earlier this year. Best of luck.
Cheers
Jon
Tring,Herts
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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Guest

Guest
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: 13 September 2006 18:06
Maybe at some point during all this activity the wire to the solenoid
has touched the block while live and blown the fuse. IIRC there's a fuse
in the dashboard fuse box by the drivers right knee but I'm afraid I
can't remember which one it is. I hope it's that simple for you for a
change.
Do you have access to a multimeter? The simplest way I know to test the
alternator is to check the voltage while the engine is running. I forget
what it should be and it's too late to go outside and check right now
but I can get you some numbers in the morning if that's any use.
Best regards,
Jon.
 
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Guest

Guest
John,
I have to say I would be very disappointed in a diesel specialist that
couldn't look at any wiring - the way things are going with electronic
everything they will be left behind and struggle.
(not to say electronic systems are better - just seem to be the way things
are progressing)
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
_______________________________
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Guest
Hi Jon
I have to be honest here I would not know what to do to test the altinator
even if I had a multimeter.
But thanks for the fuse info. Ill check it in the morning to see which fuse
looks blown. I checked the wire he connected and it does not have a fuse
attached to it.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
John,
That gives a whole new sense to the words "the luck of the Irish", doesn't it?
Except for the obvious piece of advice, like do not get involved with
people who promise to help but have no clue or just don't care, I am
afraid I can't be of much use. But I am wondering about a few things:
Why the cut-off solenoid power supply had to be bypassed if the
problem with the pump was mechanical, not electrical?
I know it sounds daft, but have you checkd the IGN fuse (7.5A) in the
fuse block under the inst.panel / righ side row, third from top?
It looks to me the mechanic sent you on your way with an empty
radiator. He had to drain at least some of the coolant when he was
working on the cold start device, then forgot to refill it. Don't
accept his silly explanation that there was a leak, because even if it
were, he couldn't miss it, could he?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 9/13/06, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
G

Guest

Guest
no water in rad, hmmmmm sounds familiar to me. i had similar experience
when i picked up my wagon after engine rebuild. drove a mile, temp guage
went up, pulled in checked for coolant, nothing, so i turned around and
drove it back to the garage and cooked it on the way. and they are left
to rebuild again as they are the supposed experts. luck of the irish
indeed.......
john if you are stuck i could pop up tomorrow to check altenator
 
G

Guest

Guest
John
Just a wild guess, but it occurred to me that one of the new wires
installed by the diesel "expert" might be drawing current even if the
car is switched off. If enough current is drawn, this would result in
the batteries being drawn flat while the car is not running.
It could also be that one of the new wires caused a short, which
discharged the batteries and which could also lead to busted fuses
(which could explain why you have so few lights coming on when starting
your cruiser)
Once the batteries are recharged, this should be easy to test by using
an ammeter on the new wiring to see if there is any current flow through
them while the car is switched off.
Regards
Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------=0AThis e-mail message and its attachments are subject to the disclaimer published at the following website of Deloitte : =0Ahttp://www.deloitte.com/nl/disclaimer
 
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Guest
Hi Paul
Thanks for the ideas.
Im just starting to check what the list has told me.
I checked the 7.5amp fuse Roman told me to and guess what its blown.
The wire to the injector pump solinoid is only connected to the battery when
the cruiser is running.
When I stop I have to disconnect the wire from the battery to stop the
cruiser running even when the ignition is switched off.
So no power to the wire unless its connected and the cruiser is running.
I cant get anyone to look at it for 3 weeks cause they are all too busy.
So Ill have to see what i can do, not much but who knows.
I have to get a multimeter today for a start.
Then i have to find out if power should be going to that solinoid all the
time before I put a new fuse in other wise I could burn out that solinoid I
think, maybe im wrong I just dont know yet.
I then have to get a battery starter or charger and see if I can start the
cruiser, because at the moment I cant.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT.
 
G

Guest

Guest
On 9/14/06, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
John,
First, get yourself a voltage probe, multimeter, bulb with two wires, whatever
- disconnect the battery (both if you have two) at the negative terminal(s)
- remove all temporary wiring
- remove the IGN fuse under the instrument panel
- locate the OEM black/blue (B/L) wire which goes to the inj. pump
solenoid, makeing sure it's away from other parts or temporarily
insulated
- reconnect the batteries
- turn the key to IGN position (not START!)
- with a probe, check if one terminal inside the IGN fuse socket has
12V. (step x)
- If (step x) is NO, check the 50Amp fuse AM1 located under the bonnet
in the black box. It's the one near the headlightt relay, closer to
the wing. It looks like a tiny plastic box (red in colour) with
transparent top
- If the 50Amp fuse AM1 is blown, replace and repeat procedure. If it
blows again, find a GOOD electrician!!!
-if the 50Amp fuse AM1 is OK, check the wiring from the ignition key
switch to the instrument panel fuse box.
- if (step x) is YES, inser the IGN fuse. Make sure it IS good, not
just looking good! Check continuity with a multimeter (0 Ohm) or car
bulb.
- take your probe to the engine bay and check if the inj. pump
solenoid B/L wire has 12V
- If NO - check the wiring between the instr. panel fusebox and
inspect harness connector IG4 located behind the dashboard, close to
the bulkhead where the grab handle is. IG4 is a 14 way connector (all
slots used) located in a cluster of four connectors (the other ones
are 24 way, 19 way and 16 way).
*** Now, don't ask me how to get to this connector because I'm not
goign to do a writeup on removing half of the dashboard!!!
- If YES, remove the ignition key from and reconnect the wire to the
inj. pump. Use the rubber cap for insulation. Restart the engine and
see if the battery is getting a charge. Proceed as required.
That's it!
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
I managed to get a guy to help start the cruiser yesterday.
The batteries were totally dead and he needed two batteries with jump leads
to start the cruiser, one attached to each of my batteries.
He tried one battery to one battery but not a kick.
Anyway it started and I took it for a run and it is charging the batteries.
Dont ask me how I dont know, I swear im jinxed in some way.
So the altenator would appear to be fine as are the batteries.
My theory on this is and believe me I have had loads of time to think about
this.
And if it is the case that its possible well just goes to show im jinxed and
thats all that is to it.
When it broke down to start with it would run fine but not idle simplamtic
of the pump.
Now when we tried to start it while it was in the drive way it would do
just that start and run but not idle.
Then we looked at the wire to the injector pump and then it would not start
at all after that.
No fuel in the injectors at all.
But I only made the connection between the injector wire and it not starting
after getting the list advice THANKS GUYS.
Then talking to my Diesel guy on the phone about the no exsistance of
coolant in the rad and telling him in a straight way that he f----- up and
if my head gasket goes I will be back to him with the cruiser for him to get
it sorted.
When talking to him he explained that he did subcontract work out that he
could not do but it was at a price.
The cruiser would have to be lifted to the Auto electrition guy at a cost
of 120 euro and then it would be 60 euro an hour after that and a delivery
charge back to him.
So he thought if it was a simple matter I could get the wiring fixed
cheaper.
He also said that he had to jump start the cruiser as the batteries were
dead when he started to look at it and that as he had said before the
injector wire was dead.
I had a thought after I put the phone down.
Could he fuse have blown to this wire when we were looking at it in the
drive way, that would explain why it did start and run but then would not
after looking at this wire.
I then remembered Roman telling me to not let it toutch of anything as it
would short and blown the fuse.
We also tried for a long time to start the cruiser that night which would
explain why the batteries were dead after he got it and then when I got it
back.
I also drive with my lights on during the day which would explain if the
batteries were very low and then I was using my lights maybe the drain was
too much for the poor batteries to handle.
So it would seem that we caused a few of the problems that I had, ( the dead
batteries and the dead wire to the injector pump).
The pump was F----- anyway but we added to my mental torture by trying to
diagnose the problem.
So with that knowledge in mind and now being a smarty pants and knowing or
thinking that i knew more I decided to try my theory out.
The batteries appeared to be fine now as was the altenator.
So I replaced the fuse to the injector pump and it blew straight away after
i turned on the ignition.
I replaced it again and left the ignition off, it was fine.
I checked the injector pump and the wire seemed to be touching the engine, I
moved it a bit and then turned on the ignition.
It didn't blow, great I thought.
I touched the wire off the pump and it blew -------- and more ---------- I
thought now
I repeated this again and again touching the wire off different places and
it blew
That is untill I touched it off the terminal it should be connected to and
it did not blow.
So it would seem it can only be in contact with this terminal and no other
part of the pump or the engine or pipework.
I conected it and it works fine now.
So now It would appear if the batteries were flat and the wire dead when the
Diesel guy got it it was out fault.
Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing really.
But as is the case with a lot of things I have been forced to learn through
mistakes made.
John 92HDJ 80 1HDT back on the road
 
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Guest

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JB, pleased to see you are making some progress, and don't worry, we
all do things at hasty times and forget them in the adrenaline rush
of it all. But as for the cable blowing the fuse, remember that its
live as long as the ignition is switched on, in order to open the
stop solenoid to let the fuel flow. So like any other live wire on a
vehicle, if you touch it to ground it will be a dead short and blow
the fuse. Anyway, one thing you may like to check-out. On my HZ
engine (which is very similar to yours) this cable runs very close to
the block, the radiated heat makes the insulation brittle and where
it curves away from the block to the pump I had the hardened
insulation split and then expose the wire strands. The cable all
along the block was in need of replacement. So just have a look, and
tedious though it may be, prise it out of the split conduit if it is
in one, if brittle then you will have to splice in a new length. You
may find that a useful exercise.
So water as an insulator, here is a funny one but don't try it at
home. My brother-in-law was a graduate officer in the red army just
before the end of soviet times. Even though an officer he had to
undergo the same field training as the troops. They were all taught
to boil water for their tea in a rough and ready way. Take 2 razor
blades and attach each of the two live cables in a twin core to each
blade by twisting through the mounting slot (not many 3 core cables
and earth points in Russia). Then lay two headless matches on a flat
surface about 2 cm apart, then place each blade across the two
matches near the end pressing them in so they stand upright. Do the
same with two more matches on the other edge side of the blades. So
you end up with two blades held apart by just less than a match
length by two matches either side. Dangle the blades from the cables
in a bucket of water, plug the cable into a socket. He says the
bucket boils pretty quickly, but you must not let it get too
turbulent around the blades otherwise they will come loose, touch,
and then blow the socket ! Well, I thought it was interesting and it
is the weekend ;o)
Cheers
Jon
Tring,Herts
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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Hey Jon-C-w
Now stop with all this testing with electricity and water and me.
I dont have the luck recently to be going and testing how many lives I have.
If its not to much bother I think ill skip this test of yours and instead
test a new bottle of wine, seems a buit safer to me tonight.
But ill check that stupid wire tomorrow if it does not rain.
The cruiser is going into Toy next week to get the Trailing arm bushing
done.
It needs a big press I think 16 ton to put it in so it has to go there.
Next ill get someone to take out the steering box and have it reconditioned.
Thanks Brian.
Then its the brakes need bleeding and the new steering damper fixing and the
rear wheeel bearings and the pusher pump fitted and then after that ill get
the steering checked for play.
I dont think there is any point in getting the play checked untill I get the
steering box fixed and the new damper fitted.
Hopefully this pusher pump will get rid of the vibrations when its left in D
at lights or parking etc which is very anoying.
If it does not ill be back as Arnie would say to the list for advice.
Take care Jon
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Guest

Guest
Careful with that one, it is a little on the risky side.
An RCD and a metal bucket should cause RCD to trip, is the bucket is plastic
and you don't put your hand in.... I suppose you might live to drink the
tea.
Electric kettles with bare live element were common in Australia in the
80's, suppose they might be still, the kettle was a jug type made in a heavy
ceramic and the lid could only be opened with the lead removed, always
seemed dangerous.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
_______________________________
He says the bucket boils pretty quickly, but you must not let it get too
turbulent around the blades otherwise they will come loose, touch,
and then blow the socket ! Well, I thought it was interesting and it
is the weekend ;o)
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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