winch bumpers and cooling

froggy Steve Sep 30, 2014

  1. froggy Steve

    froggy Steve Well-Known Member Supporter I am in europe

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    As some of you may know, I have just had a winch bumper installed - looks and feels a good bit of Kit, but today when towing my 300kg trailer loaded with 950kg mower, my cylinder head temp rose to 101 degrees! Highest I have ever seen it.

    When I got home the garage who installed it (the ones who cant spray a car) put th enumber plate over one of the cooling inlets - to be fair, there is a chunk of steel behind it, so the were only obstructing 50mm either side of this steel, leaving 50mm either side for air to get in.

    I have moved the number plate down and taken off the blanking plate where the 'hawse' (hope thats right) should go when I manage to get a winch installed.

    Has anyone had any bright idea's to let more air in once a chunk of metal is in the way? pic of how it is and how it was below.

    20140930_191158.jpg



    IMG_2514.JPG

    I hope that removing blanking plate will be enough to cool motor again - I had (the garage) fit the 76 deg thermostat - I hope they did!
     
  2. cavanmick

    cavanmick Member I am in ireland

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    It also could be down to wiring buddy, I rewired all my gauges last week and the gauge sits steady at 81 degrees now where before it used to fluctuate between 80 and 100. Gave them a separate earth and made sure all the wiring get had good connections.
     
  3. froggy Steve

    froggy Steve Well-Known Member Supporter I am in europe

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    Good point, I will check all connections tomorrow after we get home. Cheers
     
  4. cavanmick

    cavanmick Member I am in ireland

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    No bother buddy, after the shoddy bits done by the garage anything is possible...lol
     
  5. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    I have the same issue with mine. the temp guage never used to get above a quarter, now, with a recored rad, it's up in the top 3/4 on the motorway. It's not so much the bumper, but my spots and number plate. I reckon I have lost a good 50% of the frontal area of the rad grill.

    IMG_4511_zps84c4fff8.jpg

    Have come up with a variety of possible solutions. One is to move the number plate. I could get a small square one and mount it off centre to a solid piece of the bumper. I could mount it on the roof rack, but I want to be able to remove the roof rack. Also the number plate is only a small part of the problem.

    The other option I am giving serious thought to is mounting a reverse fan in front of the rad on a manual switch, then I just switch it on if the engine is getting a bit warm blow air against the rad. This also has the benefit that if there is a problem with the cooling system, for example viscous coupling failure or fan belt breakage, there is a back up system. The trick is going to be finding a robust enough fitting.

    One of the guys on the plymouth dakar had one fitted to his panda 4x4(!), and it made a huge difference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
  6. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    BTW, in the UK to make a bull bar legal on a newer vehicle like yours it must be a winch bar, and it must have a winch fitted. As I understand it, thats an EU wide requirement. I don't think that's a cooler inlet, that's for the winch fairlead.
     
  7. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    How about adding a plate to the rear of your top most bar Moggy so at motorway speeds air that would normally go over your bonnet is forced to go through the grill .
     
  8. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    interesting idea
     
  9. froggy Steve

    froggy Steve Well-Known Member Supporter I am in europe

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    The fairlead comes out of a removable section, (now removed) When I had the CT (MOT) a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned this and he said its OK if the car was older than 2003 or 4 I think (cant remember now!) but I am getting a winch, but its on the list of other things that I need first - got bumped down when I found I was OK without it!
    20140930_191158.jpg
     
  10. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    The situation regarding bullbars is complex but basically it's illegal to sell them, and fit them and has been for some time unless they are of a certain type (basically these plastic A bars you see). The age of the vehicle is irrelevant, it's the date the bar was fitted on. Your type of bar is only legal if used as a winch bar, and it is only a winch bar if it's got a winch on it! As I say, I only know what the UK regs are, but I believe it is a European directive and I think if anything the French are much tougher on mods than the UK is.

    I think your mechanic has misunderstood the regs, whether the French police would misunderstand them in the same way is open to debate! It is illegal to fit them to a vehicle manufactured after may2007 I believe, however the legislation was not retrospective so if you had a vehicle that was already fitted with one AT THE TIME OF THE LEGISLATION it was legal, however, it was illegal to fit one to an older vehicle after that date.

    Not trying to be a pain, I think the whole bullbar debate was media produced hysteria with no factual basis, just saying what the regs are so your going in eyes open as to what the plod or your insurance company might say.


     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
  11. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    further to the above

    Bullbars in the UK were accused of causing 60 deaths a year, yet when the figures were examined by a 4x4 magazine it was found of the pedestrian deaths in the UK only 6 involved 4x4s and in non of those was it recorded if a bullbar was even fitted. If you look up bull bars on wiki you will see this

    Due to the number of deaths and injuries caused by the rigid fronts of cars, often with metal bullbars (in 2000 some 2,000 deaths/year and 18,000 serious accidents/year in Europe[SUP][2][/SUP]), the sale of metal bullbars was banned by a European Union Directive.[SUP][3][/SUP]


    which is utter bollocks cars are not 'often fitted with metal bullbars' and there is no recording in accident data if a bullbar was fitted. The notion that bullbars caused 2000 deaths in 2000 is a complete fantasy. The statement is referenced to a comment made in the commons and is a completely made up figure!

    I found this quote from Brian Hardy, Head of Pedestrian Protection, Transport Research Laboratory

    "During 1996, I was carrying out an accident study for Department for Transport. Bull bars appeared to be responsible for few casualties, for instance, base vehicles (vehicles without bull bars) were often dangerous enough to have caused similar injuries, or impact speeds were often too high to avoid injury. I estimated that bull bars were causing about 2 to 3 extra fatalities per year, and about 40 extra seriously injured casualties a year, much lower than previously thought."

    the original research is here

    http://www.dft.gov.uk/rmd/project.asp?intProjectID=10328

    so yes, they can apparently increase the severity of an accident, but not nearly as much as the press, wiki, MPs and others have been throwing about!!

     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
  12. froggy Steve

    froggy Steve Well-Known Member Supporter I am in europe

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    The CT (MOT) station is just that - over here they do not do any type of work on cars or anything else - thats his job, testing cars. He is a 4x4 person too, even has a 'special 4x4' jet wash in his yard! (its always muddy!)
     
  13. Tractionman

    Tractionman Member I am in england

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    If you fitted one after the legislation date, how would they know, - if you said it was on there before? Or you bought a vehicle with one on, that had it fitted after this date by a P.O.? No one can prove either way, end of discussion with jobsworths and petty law enforcers. Does this make sense, - or not,whichever way you look at it!

    John
     
  14. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    ah well, there lies the dilemma:icon-wink:

    but to make life easy, there are plenty of reasonably priced winches out there.
     
  15. Dave_S

    Dave_S Well-Known Member

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  16. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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