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Workshop (cautionary) Tales

G

Guest

Guest
Hi All,
It's been a while since the last workshop report so here is a catch up.
Even if you aren't interested in working on your LC yourself, it is
well worth reading the first part of this.... it is a cautionary tale.
I have recently had to do a standard front axle rebuild replacing the
CVs, all the seals and checking the wheel and knuckle bearings,
replacing where necessary.
Now the important thing to point out was that last December this 80 had
had it's steering knuckles rebuilt with a number of new parts fitted by
a 'local mechanic'.
Anyway, I thought it was a little odd that the vehicle need attention
so soon after a rebuild however was shocked whe I opened it all up.
Basically the local mechanic had forgotten to put any grease in the
wheel bearings or CVs!!! and to top it all the owner has been doing a
fair bit of off roading over the last 10 months including regular dips
in a ford.
I struggled to get a socket on the hub nuts because they were so rusted
and when I opened up the knuckles I had rusty oily water dribbling out
of it.
The thing I don't understand is that the mechanic must have know to put
grease in there, because there was some in there before he stripped it
all down.
As you can imagine the wheel bearings were completely shot - I'm
actually staggered that there wasn't more damage. You can see some
pics of the bearings at
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/julian.voelcker/OddsAndSodsPics.
The frustrating this is this isn't the first time this has happened -
earlier this year I replaced the CVs on an 80 that had only been
replaced 18months previously by a local Toyota dealer (who should know
better) and they had forgotten to put grease in them.
I also know of a fellow lister who's local mechanic assumed that the LC
was like some LRs so had put oil in the CV rather than grease. Great
in theory, however the unsurprisingly the seals couldn't handle it and
it all leaked out.
Anyhow, I guess what I am leading up to is that unless you are going to
do the work yourself, do check to make sure that anyone working on your
80 knows what they are doing, and if they or you are unsure, askk on
the list here about how to do something and then pass on the info to
your machanic.
Whilst doing the rebuild I noticed that there was a slip of metal
wedged in the vents of one of the Milner supplied disks (see
http://tinyurl.com/34zx44) . I thought it might have been for
balancing the disk but checked with our resident Brakes guru Gareth
Jones on his views and he pointed out that disks should be balanced
during the machining process - anyway I checked with Milners and it is
indeed there for balancing - which doesn't reflect well on their
quality.
Whilst on the subject of Milners, I always use a length of scaffolding
pole to seperate CVs from halfshafts which works well (most of the
time!) for removing Toyota CVs however when trying to remove a Milner
CV the other day it didn't matter how many times I tried dropping it in
the scaffolding pole or how many times I hit it with firstly my heavy
brassed faced hammer and latterly with a sledgehammer I could not shift
it or shatter the cage. In the end we had to use a plasma cutter to
cut away the cage and then a combination of plasma cutter and angle
grider to remove the inner part of the cage. I think it just goers to
show that these things are pretty solidly built!
More news later.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
07971 540 362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi All,
It's been a while since the last workshop report so here is a catch up.
Even if you aren't interested in working on your LC yourself, it is
well worth reading the first part of this.... it is a cautionary tale.
I have recently had to do a standard front axle rebuild replacing the
CVs, all the seals and checking the wheel and knuckle bearings,
replacing where necessary.
Now the important thing to point out was that last December this 80 had
had it's steering knuckles rebuilt with a number of new parts fitted by
a 'local mechanic'.
Anyway, I thought it was a little odd that the vehicle need attention
so soon after a rebuild however was shocked whe I opened it all up.
Basically the local mechanic had forgotten to put any grease in the
wheel bearings or CVs!!! and to top it all the owner has been doing a
fair bit of off roading over the last 10 months including regular dips
in a ford.
I struggled to get a socket on the hub nuts because they were so rusted
and when I opened up the knuckles I had rusty oily water dribbling out
of it.
The thing I don't understand is that the mechanic must have know to put
grease in there, because there was some in there before he stripped it
all down.
As you can imagine the wheel bearings were completely shot - I'm
actually staggered that there wasn't more damage. You can see some
pics of the bearings at
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/julian.voelcker/OddsAndSodsPics.
The frustrating this is this isn't the first time this has happened -
earlier this year I replaced the CVs on an 80 that had only been
replaced 18months previously by a local Toyota dealer (who should know
better) and they had forgotten to put grease in them.
I also know of a fellow lister who's local mechanic assumed that the LC
was like some LRs so had put oil in the CV rather than grease. Great
in theory, however the unsurprisingly the seals couldn't handle it and
it all leaked out.
Anyhow, I guess what I am leading up to is that unless you are going to
do the work yourself, do check to make sure that anyone working on your
80 knows what they are doing, and if they or you are unsure, askk on
the list here about how to do something and then pass on the info to
your machanic.
Whilst doing the rebuild I noticed that there was a slip of metal
wedged in the vents of one of the Milner supplied disks (see
http://tinyurl.com/34zx44) . I thought it might have been for
balancing the disk but checked with our resident Brakes guru Gareth
Jones on his views and he pointed out that disks should be balanced
during the machining process - anyway I checked with Milners and it is
indeed there for balancing - which doesn't reflect well on their
quality.
Whilst on the subject of Milners, I always use a length of scaffolding
pole to seperate CVs from halfshafts which works well (most of the
time!) for removing Toyota CVs however when trying to remove a Milner
CV the other day it didn't matter how many times I tried dropping it in
the scaffolding pole or how many times I hit it with firstly my heavy
brassed faced hammer and latterly with a sledgehammer I could not shift
it or shatter the cage. In the end we had to use a plasma cutter to
cut away the cage and then a combination of plasma cutter and angle
grider to remove the inner part of the cage. I think it just goers to
show that these things are pretty solidly built!
More news later.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
07971 540 362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
G

Guest

Guest
Alright Julian
Re greasing up bearings and CV's - unbelievable! Tell yermans mechanic
to join the list - he might learn a few basics!! :->
Re> when trying to remove a Milner CV the other day.... In the end we
had to use a plasma cutter
Was going to replace both CV's with Milners + put a Milner CV in my
spare part box to facilitate a bush repair if necessary.
Would be interested to know if anyone else had this problem with Milners
CV's.
Cheers
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
Niall,
I think the moral of the story re the CVs is that they are very strong - my only concern is that the snap ring may just be too strong.
The only reason that the snap ring is on the halfshaft is to prevent it from sliding out of the CV and in to the diff.
An alternative solution to the snap ring is to put a small spot weld on the half shaft, on the end that goes into the diff - you should be able to see the wear where the shaft enters the diff - put a spot of weld on the CV side of this.
This will save the need for the snap ring and thus the problems with trying to get the Milner CV off.
Cheers,
Julian
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Is this a good or bad thing regarding strenth of the mIlners CV or the lack
of it regarding the Toyota one.
Has anyone broken a Milner CV within average use( dare I say it).
Because It seems that the CV and bearings worked very well without any
lubrication for nearly one year which cant be easy.
So if the CV was a Milner were the bearings also from Milner that lasted
without grease for that lenght of time.
Correct me if Im wrong and im sure I will be corrected but is the snap ring
not easly removed with a (my term for it as I dont know the correct name) a
pliers that works in the opposite way.
If the Milners Cv is difficult to get off even when the ring is removed what
is it that causes this difficulty, a tighter fit or stronger metal etc.
Very curious cause I have fitted both Milners CVs to mine
Again is there any way of telling between the Milners and Toyota CVs.
I ask because I have two busted CVs in my shed, one which wore down at the
splines at the flange side and the other where the cage broke apart, another
one (Toyota) broke apart in the cage.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
Alright Julian
RE> An alternative solution to the snap ring is to put a small spot weld
on the half shaft,
Have seen that spot weld idea on Bierfield.com
If fitting Milners CV's and intending to be able to do a bush repair,
then will have to go the the spot weld route.
Thanks
Niall
 
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G

Guest

Guest
Alright Jon
RE> If you broke it you'll be able to expose and remove the snap ring...
Good point - now I need to go drink some coffee - very early for
rebuilding a cv...
RE> If there's lots of evidence it works I might consider it but
otherwise I wouldn't go bush like that.
Seems to be an method used by the Aussies a fair bit.
Cheers
Niall
HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Jon
Ok thanks for clearing that up.
So is there not a ring at the other end of the CV or have I lost it again,
not the ring but my mind.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
snip
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Jon,
Hopefully.... If the shaft has snapped on the CV you still have to try to
get the rest off the halfshaft - we were smashing it with a sledge hammer,
lump hammer, etc and none of them would really touch it.
It is know as the 'Marlin Tack' or 'Martack' after Marlin Czajkowski or
Marlin Crawler who specialise in going Rock Crawling in Toyotas, so it must
stand up to some pretty harsh testing. Just google it and you will find a
stack of references.
If you don't do the Marlin Tack I think you are right and that you would be
better off with the Toyota snap rings.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
07971 540 362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Jon,
Hopefully.... If the shaft has snapped on the CV you still have to try to
get the rest off the halfshaft - we were smashing it with a sledge hammer,
lump hammer, etc and none of them would really touch it.
It is know as the 'Marlin Tack' or 'Martack' after Marlin Czajkowski or
Marlin Crawler who specialise in going Rock Crawling in Toyotas, so it must
stand up to some pretty harsh testing. Just google it and you will find a
stack of references.
If you don't do the Marlin Tack I think you are right and that you would be
better off with the Toyota snap rings.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
07971 540 362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Just wondering what is the rate of failure of the half shaft on the 80s
compared to the CVs.
Also Is there a time span or mileage span at which one should replace the
half shafts on the 80s.
If a half shaft did break how would you get the inner piece out of the Diff.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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