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Paddler Ed

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So that I stop derailing Ben's Build Thread, I thought it was a good idea to move to the lounge and run a thread here.

Having picked up on Tony's experience with Bessie and Roo Systems, I've been a bit more wary about the promotion of their stuff (and like others will be reading the Pat Callinan magazine when I get there)

I read with interest the companies associated with EMG (the publishing group behind 4WD Action) are having trouble exhibiting at a show that's coming up, it was posted on their Facebook page... clicky here

Don't have any sympathy for them really, and it's interesting reading about all the problems that others are having with EMG and the magazine/DVD's

Thought I'd share it with everyone, and see if people wanted to add their comments as well!
 
Very interesting ... looks like all their dodgy dealings are catching up with them - which is very nice to hear really :)
 
Been there and commented.
 
There's a comment (Currently near Chas') which is very interesting regarding Roo Systems...

I'm glad when I got my new exhaust fitted on our 73 out there that I went to a local garage's recommendation (in fact 2 people recommended me to use them) rather than one of the advertisers in 4wd action. Basically ended up with a custom system from the headers back, as they didn't have a kit exhaust that fitted a 73. Took an extra day IIRC but I got a nice new system that sounded good and flowed a bit easier.
 
Interesting reply on their Facebook page from the owner of EMG:

I am Charles Vella, the owner of Express Media Group which I founded 26 years ago. We publish 4WD Action. I also have a financial interest in Tigerz11 and Roo Systems.

I started 4WD Action over 200 issues ago with a view to cover the 4WD lifestyle and help 4WDers enjoy the Aussie bush for less money. Other prominent 4WD media was then, and still is, mainly concerned with expensive new vehicles and products. For 15 years 4WD Action has been showing the average Australian that you don’t need lots of money to enjoy the bush with your mates and family. This is largely the reason why 4WD Action is so popular today.

Almost 12 months ago I declared publically my intention to be financially involved in 4WD products. Our many years of testing 4WD products showed us that it’s not always the most expensive products that are the best. In nearly every case, the products that did the job and represented great value for money won our product comparisons. A year ago I decided to invest in 4WD products as I saw a real need for better priced aftermarket gear that more Australians could afford.

I have chosen to personally explain my take on the 4WD Industry as there are many untruths being circulated. I choose not to hide behind my own media and share with you what you are not being told. As far as I see it, 4WDers deserve to know where their hard-earned money is going.

The decision to get involved in the selling of products was met with a great deal of industry outrage but much support from our readers – in fact, our readership in the 12 months to March grew 18%. This tells us that our readers believe we have made the right decision.

The financial cost of my decision was the cancellation or non-renewal of over $2 million dollars of advertising. We expected this to happen, as Tigerz and Roo competed directly with some of our advertisers, but someone had to give the public access to more affordable prices for quality 4WD and camping gear so that they could enjoy the outdoors.
At the 5 big shows Tigerz and Roo attended many fans applauded us for giving them access to affordable products. The response at these shows has simply been overwhelming, and I can understand this would have upset some competitors.
The recent banning of Roo Systems and Tigerz11 from the Melbourne 4x4 Show will deprive our audience from visiting these companies’ stands.

The same show promoter still wishes to advertise in our magazines for that same show! Despite the treatment we received we will run their ads.

We are providing to 4WDers what Aldi and Costco are providing in other markets – not everyone can afford top brands.
I have put everything on the line and borrowed against my assets to fund the stock that is being provided to dealers – all products are supplied on consignment, so that the public can buy their gear at the online price, but can save freight by picking up locally.

We know how hard it is for small business and have fully funded all our Australian dealers by giving them the products to sell with no outlay upfront for the business owner. They only pay us for goods after they have sold them. Because of this unique structure, that no other 4WD company has offered, our dealers are growing their businesses and creating new jobs for Australians. It saddens me to hear false accusations that we are taking away jobs from Australians, when in fact we are creating many of them. Maybe if other players in the industry offered the same opportunities for small business and lowered their own profit margin, maybe even more jobs could be added.

I know that most products you buy for your 4WD are made in Asia, including many of the vehicles themselves. Don’t be fooled by claims of supporting Australian industry – many of the products that Tigerz and Roo sell compete with imports made in the same countries as some competitors’ products.

While our products like most others are made overseas we have created many new jobs for Australians. Our dealer network is over 50 companies strong, and growing rapidly.

I have risked what has taken 26 years to build to ensure the public can get decent products cheaply. This is very much a David and Goliath battle – I am doing this with my own money, and taking on a whole industry.

People have accused me of being greedy, but this fight has cost me plenty.

The industry needs a shake-up.

Look at air-travel – we needed Virgin to get a better deal.

Look at the cost of accommodation – WOTIF.com and similar sites changed that landscape.

Look at the increasing popularity of Aldi and Costco.

Tigerz11 and Roo Systems operate on modest margins, and the buyer enjoys the benefit.

Many aftermarket manufacturers will say that a lot of the reason for their higher prices is to justify the cost of R&D. Even using an estimate of the industry employing up to 100 engineers and even assuming they are paid $100,000 each that’s $10 million. We are talking about an industry that is turning over around $1 billion annually – that equates to around 1% of turnover being spent on R&D. We also invest a lot of money on R&D yet our prices are still much lower.

It is beyond belief that anyone from the public, the media, or the 4WD industry can question the morals of a much smaller company, such as ours, risking everything to offer customers better deals.

Who is really standing up for the battlers? Much of the 4WD industry along with some media outlets, that stand to benefit from the increased advertising their support brings, is fighting against us. I’m not telling you which products to buy and never will. I just want 4WDers to have more choice. As long as the customer wins, 4WDing will only benefit as a whole. Without more companies and the public challenging the big players of the industry, prices will never become affordable.
Competition of this kind, while upsetting to some established players is what the industry and 4WDers badly need. I have never been afraid to fight for what I believe is right, nor stand up for those who I believe are being unfairly treated.
If I have been able to contribute in making 4WDing more affordable in Australia I will consider our efforts to be worthwhile.

Charles Vella

Comments are coming in thick and fast berating them for the quality of their products...
 
I replied to this thread as I contacted Charles Vella towards the end of last year,this was his reply!

Dear Mr. Symonds,

Charles Vella has asked me to respond to your email.

Express Media Group has entered into an arrangement with Roo Systems to sell products.

Express Media Group has no financial interest or ownership in AMMS Pty Ltd or Roo Systems Pty Ltd.

We therefore cannot assist you in your dispute with AMMS.

Kind regards

Keith Whittington
Company Secretary

No financial interest, no help! Yeah right, thanks!
 
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Very fishy!

Do we want to ask if this can be merged into your thread or do you want to keep it seperated?
 
Don't mind, could be merged, then all the Roo stuff is under one thread.
 
Thought that as we've just just got chased out of Ben's thread (again...) I'd bring this back to the top so that people could find it more easily.
 
Just seen some impressive footage on You Tube/ABC.net.au from the fires out to the west of Sydney, it's out towards the Newnes area for those who know it, looking at the footage.



Took me 3 goes, and quoting one of Ben's posts to see how he did YouTube posts... got there in the end!
 
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It all sounds very applaudable from his quote above, if you take it at face value of course.

However, quality comes at a price. People go shopping for the cheapest product and then moan because it hasn't stood as well as something that cost twice as much. I always reckoned when I was in retail you could give stuff away for free, and people would still complain when it broke. If he is trying to minimise price then I think he has come unstuck because he is also compromising quality.

BUT!!!!

I haven't tried their products or read the threads about the stuff, so it might be crap even for the price!!
 
So I've been doing some digging around looking for some decent mapping software for Australia; originally I was tempted with a Garmin Hand held GPS and then getting their Topo maps for it (which wouldn't see much change out of $300+ depending on handset) and then I thought, well Ben's road unit does a good job, so I might go with one of those.

I've now done some more digging and have found that Memory Map do a free 1:250,000 map of the whole of Australia! If you Clicky here and then also download the Data Components as you'll need those later....

Then run the installer on the computer, and from there open the programme and where it says Digital Map Store select AusTopo250, and run it on as big monitor as you can (I've got a 19" screen that I'm using for the job) load it screen by screen.

There are some limitations, and I'm not sure how much are avoided by registering just this product as I already have a Memory Map user name and ID as I use MM in the UK with OSGB maps, but now that I've registered I can import GPX files, print maps and routes and do all the useful things.

My intention is to run it on both my laptops, using my smaller netbook as the vehicle based system and my bigger laptop as the planner as such.

Hope that helps people,

Ed
 
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