Grinding noise.

[Edpickett]

Hello, Can anyone help?

Thump bang and grind.

I have a 98 auto amazon 155k

I was trying to pull a medium sized car up a snow covered straigh track with no success. I've towed a variety of things in the 7 years I've owned my amazon. I tried the central diff lock in Hi low , then Low box. It was like I was trying to pull a train. Wheels spinning/ without grip I then heard a bang noise followed by an intermittent grinding sound when driving forward and an occasional judder as if i had slammed on the brakes. ( i can only discribe the sound similar to a hanbrake popping on a car left standing) it seems to be less in low box? It does exactly the Same on a flat surface it's almost like it won't fully engage drive. Ive looked underneath whilst someone else was shifting into drive and reverse and I'm hearing a gear like whirling/grinding intermittently! When shifting box I always make sure I'm in neutral with the handbrake on.

I can't help think the transmissions stripped something!


Kind regards,

Ed

 

[Gav Peter]

Thats a helluva first post Ed...

'Fraid I can'r assist but hopefully some one will be along shortly...

 

[Edpickett]

Blimey tell me about it. It just ain't my day! An hour before my 53 plate run-about golf gt tdi engine light came on. Im praying that's simple I'd prefer an amazon warning light any day! dear oh dear. 2 cars in 1 hour!

 

[uHu]

Sounds like it could be the front diff. You have the weaker 2-pinion version of the first 2 years.
Did you tow in reverse? (It's weaker when reversing)

If it is your diff, make sure you replace with a 4-pinion; e.g. from a wrecker.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Yes, sounds like a classic front diff failure Where are you located?

 

[Edpickett]

Hi,
Better than the transmission I suppose! I was towing forward although I did have to reverse through a snowdrift. Done that before too. The rear dif actuator ceased about a year ago too. Shouldrobobly do that at the same time but everyone I have asked/enquired with just say "mmm must to be a dealer part"!£££ I'm amazed that a passat estate unlaiden could do this. What a bugger!

I live 5 miles west of Buxton in Derbyshire. Any ideas where I could find a front diff and rear actuator?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

front diff failure is not the only possibility, just the most likely. Do the drive shafts look ok - if you look under the front of the car, the shafts that come out the back of the wheel hubs and run towards the engine, do they look ok? If one of those had gone it would usually be pretty obvious with a torn rubber boot and grease flung everywhere. Are you any good with spanners or will you have to get someone else to work on it?

 

[Edpickett]

Hi Jon,
Sorry for my late reply I've been unable to unlock my computer! Putting in the wrong case...
The drive shafts appear to be intact. I've started to look around for potential components. Blimey they are few and far between ! I will probably have someone else do the work as I really don't have the experience and tools. With the diff gone if I have to move her can I slowly limp along in drive? I can't imagine a tow wld be any better?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

With the diff gone if I have to move her can I slowly limp along in drive? I can't imagine a tow wld be any better?

I wouldn't recommend it, partly because it could seize and break other parts and partly because it could seize and cause an accident ... really you need to put it on a low loader or remove the diff where it stands. It's quite a straight forward job to remove the diff if you have some spanner skills, for example if you are comfortable with changing a wheel bearing.

I don't think you've said if it's a petrol or diesel? They have different diff gear ratios so you need the right one. Once the diff is out and the front cover is off you'll know if it's the ring and pinion that have failed or the carrier pinion gears. If the R&P and you have a diesel, they have the same gears as an 80 series diesel auto so a possibility is to get an 80 series front diff and swap the R&P from that into your diff. If it's the carrier pinion that has failed then you might find someone on here has a spare from upgrading theirs to an ARB locking carrier so you might be able to buy just the carrier (still be the weaker 2 pinion though).

 

[uHu]

If you remove both drive flanges and the front propeller shaft, the front diff will not move at all. By pressing the center diff lock button, you then have RWD only. If that solves the grinding noise problem, you have established that the diff is at fault.

You can't drive for ages like that, even if you cover the front (outside) of the hubs, as there is a chance of getting dirt into the spindle from the backside (inside) when the driveshaft (CV shaft) is not pulled into place by the snap ring outside the drive flange. It could be tied up some way though. Fancy driving a 2wd?

 

[uHu]

If you are looking for a 2nd hand front diff, make sure you get one for a diesel (HDJ100) with the 4-sp box, with a production date August 1999 or later. That would be a vehicle frame No 8011850 or later. This is to get the 4 pinion instead of the earlier 2-pinion.

I believe a diff from a 5-speed petrol (UZJ100) would fit as well. It has the same ratio of 4.1:1, and the same part No. Jon, can you confirm this?

Part numbers from t0yodiy:
41110-60800 - 2 pinion, 4.1:1, early HDJ - before aug 1999
41110-60801 - 4 pinion, 4.1:1, late 4-sp HDJ, and 5-sp UZJ (Aug 2002 onwards for the uzj)

edit - for reference - wrong ratio:
41110-60811 - 3.909:1, 5-speed HDJ
41110-60821 - 4.3:1, 4-speed UZJ from Aug 1999
41110-60820 - 4.3:1, 4-speed UZJ before Aug 1999

 

[Cptsideways]

There's a quick check you can do.


Pull the dustcaps off the end of the front axles (wheels can stay on) & you should be able to see the end of the stub axle & its splin drive into the hub. As before get someone to see if the stub axle is moving/spinning in the drive flange or not.

If you can see it spinning you've sheared the splines of the cv/stub axle. If not its more internal.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I believe a diff from a 5-speed petrol (UZJ100) would fit as well. It has the same ratio of 4.1:1, and the same part No. Jon, can you confirm this?

As far as I know that's correct. There's also the manual gearbox variants to watch out for with AFAIK 3.9's

 

[Edpickett]

Ha Ha 2WD, Landy boys around me would love that!

Well I've had It looked at and it's the front diff for sure just as you guys thought!!. It's stripped off 5 teeth and munched a bearing.

I've had the parts costed to replace at 850.00 I haven't had any joy finding one! I rekon. Could buy a used front and rear axel for around that? Does anyone know of one preferably with the 4 pinion?

I should have the full report later today, I'll let you know what it says exactly.

All in all I'm quite relieved!

 

[Paul]

Depends how long you can wait, i might have a 4 pinion diff for sale in the next few months if thats any good.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Your options depend really on how much you want a stronger diff than before vs how much you're willing to spend and whether you have a petrol or diesel?

 

[Edpickett]

Sorry it's a diesel.

I would always like to improve the durability. But times against me.

The last 2 pinion must have lasted a fair while and I don't give too much stick! I really need to get her back on the road pronto so I might need to go with the repair!

Onto the rear axle. Is the rear diff actuator a robust part? The casing on the soliniod crumbled when tapped, can the soliniod be replaced separately . Looks like a drill and tap job it's hard to recognise the bolts heads.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I probably have some 2 pinion carriers here but not 4 pinion so that's no help. I don't know if I have any 4.1 gears, probably not but I'll have a look in a bit but I put a load out for scrap when I was having a clear out. Which bearing is knackered? I have misc bearings in my diff box but not a complete set any more (I rebuild landcruiser diffs for a hobby / beer tokens). If you find a front diff from an 80 series diesel auto it has the same gears you need and they can be swapped over, I've done that before and they are cheaper than 100 series diffs

For your rear actuator it might be worth contacting Ian Rubie. Yes they're a separate part you change with the diff still in the axle and the bolts are quite soft alloy so you may have to drill and tap them out.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I checked, no 4.1's but I do have bearings, crush sleeves, oil seals etc for a rebuild if you find an 80 series diesel auto front diff. Thought for a minute I had a 4 pinion carrier but it's from a 120 rear and though it looks the same to a casual inspection they are different part numbers so maybe the drive shaft spline size or count is different.