LC3 no start

[Tractionman]

Hi All,
After 14 years of owning a 70 series, last week I went out and bought a 2006 120 series. Started up several times at sellers, did test drive, did deal and drove home, approx 100 miles, mainly dual carriageway and motorway.
Absolutely no problems. The day after it wouldn't start,- turns over very slowly. Magic eyes in both batteries show blue ok, but put on charge anyway, charger showing charged, Both baths. Still turns too slow to start.
I managed to jump it from a dodgy battery I had in garage, and it ran great.
I cleaned up all battery connections next day and still same problem.
Now, I am thinking batteries are showing 12v but not putting out enough cranking amps, but before I spend beer money on 2 new ones, is there something I have missed. Thanks

 

[Higgy]

Have you cleaned up the terminals on the starter motor , And earths to Body etc, Chase the pos and neg from the batteries and check connections there too.... In the old days good batteries, but slow to start usually meant starter was on its way out... Good luck

 

[Tractionman]

Have you cleaned up the terminals on the starter motor , And earths to Body etc, Chase the pos and neg from the batteries and check connections there too.... In the old days good batteries, but slow to start usually meant starter was on its way out... Good luck

 

[Tractionman]

Thanks Higgy, cleaned up everything inc body earth up top in engine bay, but couldn't actually see where starter motor was located, as couldn't get underneath properly, this is lower than my lj78. Could I get to it by removing a wheel and going in from the side? Cheers

 

[Higgy]

Most are accessible by removing passenger side wheel, Yes.. and the splash /protector bits as well...

 

[MarkW]

Check the voltage when cranking first, if its below 10v trying to start then it's new battery time

 

[Tractionman]

Got that Higgy, thanks.
MarkW, I assume that as the two batteries are wired in parallell then either would do to check cranking voltage if I can get her indoors to turn the key. Hopefully it is clean up s/motor connections as per Higgy.
Batteries or s/ motor I could be in for similar outlay, good job I negotiated a great deal on this lc !!

 

[MarkW]

yes both connected will work to check.

I've had batteries on the way out charge up fine and show a good voltage at rest but drop on cranking before. If it drops below 10V then you could repeat the process with 1 battery disconnected to isolate if its both or just one bad battery.

I'd be surprised if its the connections at the starter unless they have been removed recently, more likely to be a battery or earth issue imho

 

[Tractionman]

Thanks for that info Mark. I will be in there soon as weather permits to check that as well as clean up, to remove that from the could be list. Not sure what has been done with previous owner as no receipts, but full toyota stamped service history.
Good work chaps, will come back with result. Thanks.

 

[tony rodaway]

Take both batteries off and swop the one from the passenger side to the drivers side.
Leave the passenger one off just for the test.
The car will still start and ignore the dash lights cos no auxiliary battery fitted.
You won't need two batteries as its as you suspected its the cca (Cold crank ampage.) in your battery.
I will put money on it that all electrical components and switches in your car work perfectly.
The seller just charged the battery for you to test drive and the overnight layover has lost its cca charge.
Don't waste time just replace the drivers battery if your test proves your correct theory.
Nothing worse than a car with no start.

 

[Juddian]

If its jump starting OK its got to be a battery issue and i too think this is the problem.

First off though, when you turn the ignition on you do have a red battery light showing and does it go out once started?, because when my alternator failed last year what i hadn't noticed was among the myriad of dash lights there was no battery light showing at all, my local sparky supplied a Lucas recon for some £126 inc, if it is that the easiest route in is to remove the OSF wheel and go in from the side.

If the alternator is charging ok and it continues to jump start without issue then it really has to be batteries, MrT's batteries are usually about as well priced as anything out there, sadly you've just missed GSF's sale where Yuasa (very good quality) were some 55% off.

 

[Tractionman]

Sorry for delay getting back, central heating decided to pack up. Anyway, checked starter terminals, checked battery light on dash which lights with ignition on and goes out when starts, couldn't do battery swap around, handed, leads won't stretch, couldn't do cranking volts check, wife decided to go to daughters for w/end. After some thought I got the 120 started with iffy battery in garage, then with wife's car gone I shunted the 120 and 78 around next to each other. That done I shut the 120 off, sure enough no start. Hooked up jump leads and started straight off. In all done this 4 times in between c/heating fix and tea breaks, and starts every time. New battery time x 2.
Alpha have Varta same size and handed @ £80 each, so I will order those Monday.
Still don't fully understand why the ones on there show full on charger, 12v on voltage meter and blue magic eye as per toyota handbook.
I am grateful to you all who responded with all thoroughly sound and sensible ideas. Thanks.

 

[Juddian]

Batteries started to die just the same on my 70 series so many years ago, just got slower turning the engine over.
Charged them both up but after a couple of days the engine would be noticeable slower turning over, never failed to start mind you, 2 new batteries and it never gave a moments bother again.

You tend to get a bit spoiled owning Toyotas i think, other cars and other makes of battery they just die without any warning leaving you stranded, the batts on our LC's seem to give you fair warning they're past it, plus with the twin set up in parallel even if one was completely shot you should still be able to drive it till you can source a pair.

Dunno about you lot, but i preferred when you could remove the tops easily and check the levels for yourself, that was another early warning system a cell was dying when one needed topping up regularly, still should be grateful we are still allowed a dipstick.

 

[tony rodaway]

Hi All,
After 14 years of owning a 70 series, last week I went out and bought a 2006 120 series. Started up several times at sellers, did test drive, did deal and drove home, approx 100 miles, mainly dual carriageway and motorway.
Absolutely no problems. The day after it wouldn't start,- turns over very slowly. Magic eyes in both batteries show blue ok, but put on charge anyway, charger showing charged, Both baths. Still turns too slow to start.
I managed to jump it from a dodgy battery I had in garage, and it ran great.
I cleaned up all battery connections next day and still same problem.
Now, I am thinking batteries are showing 12v but not putting out enough cranking amps, but before I spend beer money on 2 new ones, is there something I have missed. Thanks

Won't show the cold crank amps from a multi meter just over all battery voltage.
I learnt this myself with my 90 series as it to had the same problem as your 120.
Replacing the two batteries is a big expense but will solve all your problems.
Good luck and hope your nice and warm in your house again.

 

[Tractionman]

Juddian, you are right about being spoilt owning a toyota l/c, that's why I bought another.
I too liked batteries where you could see inside n top up, as for dipstick, I am a little disappointed none for gearbox. How daft is that having to crawl underneath, and raising it to remove plug n check level. Is there a light that comes on to at least tell you it's low ?
Tony, not too worried about new batts having negotiated a good price so room for extras ?
Bungalow is toasty now thanks, having 'helped' the 3 port motorised valve along, new one bought ready to replace.

 

[Juddian]

Ah the 5 speed box, yes i too am annoyed at Toyota for going down this road.

Checking the oil is when the oil temp reaches 46'C, there is a sequence to follow to enable the dash light to tell you when its up to temp, but i cheated and used a laser thermometer aimed at the gearbox sump, then in park at tickover you remove the overflow plug from the bottom of the sump, if no oil comes out in needs topping up.

I changed the oil on my gearbox, it's not too bad a job but can be a bit messy and you need an oil pump or syringe of some sort because the filler plug is not very accessible hidden half way up the side of the box, took me a while to find it, no way could you refill with normal oil bottles.
There's some good videos on youtube showing this.

It's Toyota WS fluid by the way, but i found Dexron 6 (synthetic) made by EXOL also covers WS and i used that, no doubt others are available and to be fair some people would rather stick with genuine Mr T's WS, i didn't get involved in disconnecting the oil cooler pipes, though nothing wrong with doing that, instead i changed 3 sumpfuls, roughly 4 litres at a time, running the vehicle for a period in all gears between each change, the box is silky smooth now, suppose i'm old school and have no interest or belief in this sealed for life cobblers...ask BMW X5 and Range River owners how 'sealed for life' is working out on their auto boxes!

I do not know if there's a low fluid level light.

Dipsticks...our other car is a Forester XT, which has 3 dipsticks under the bonnet, engine, gearbox (auto or manual), and front diff, changing the gearbox oil on the auto Forester is actually easier than an engine oil change, but then our 4 pot Toyota Diesels offer the easiest cambelt change on the planet, something the Subaru cannot lay claim to , can't win em all.

 

[Tractionman]

Old school through and through me, you can't beat actually seeing something and making your own mind up as to if it needs topping up e.t.c. Sealed for life bah !!
Useful info there Juddian to be noted and tucked away for future, - thanks. I have a 12v fluid transfer pump which claims to shift oil amongst others, we will see sometime. Also I have one of those temperature laser guns, very useful tool, and armed with your temp. info should make changing ATF easier. Thanks.

 

[Tractionman]

Came to order the batteries this a.m. checked the spec again and the varta g7 and g8 are too long for the tray. Poss tight fit even if i could get longer tray. OldManOfThe West came up against the tray problem
I am now looking at yuasa ybx3030 and 3031 and alpha ultra plus 030 and 031. Shame about the varta a good spec which I preferred against the others where choice is limited because of handing.